Visit the Ironworks Gaming Website Email the Webmaster Graphics Library Rules and Regulations Help Support Ironworks Forum with a Donation to Keep us Online - We rely totally on Donations from members Donation goal Meter

Ironworks Gaming Radio

Ironworks Gaming Forum

Go Back   Ironworks Gaming Forum > Ironworks Gaming Forums > General Discussion > General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005)

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-21-2003, 08:34 AM   #21
Zero Alpha
Avatar
 

Join Date: July 15, 2002
Location: London, England
Age: 39
Posts: 506
Quote:
Originally posted by Zuvio:

I don't believe this mod should *ever* be allowed.

*snip*
This mod should be banned for the obvious reasons.
I thought americans had the right to a freedom of speech. you cannot ban something that is free, without being opressive.

Quote:
Shaggy Wrote:
I think its sad that someones always ready to cash in on someone else's misfortunes, says alot for us as a race dosent it.
mod makers dont charge. I have no idea how you think you can level the 'cash in' argument against a free mod.

IMHO, this could insult many people if they choose to take it personaly. these same people could also just not play it and not complain. i dont see why anyone who may be offened by it is 'forced' to download and play it. in short, if you dont like it, dont play it.
__________________
\"RTFM\"<br />\"No i will NOT fix your computer\"<br />\"All\'s fair in sibling war\"
Zero Alpha is offline  
Old 09-21-2003, 10:02 AM   #22
Sigmar
Unicorn
 

Join Date: May 17, 2001
Location: N/a
Posts: 4,222
Quote:
Originally posted by Zero Alpha:
quote:
Originally posted by Zuvio:

I don't believe this mod should *ever* be allowed.

*snip*
This mod should be banned for the obvious reasons.
I thought americans had the right to a freedom of speech. you cannot ban something that is free, without being opressive.

Quote:
Shaggy Wrote:
I think its sad that someones always ready to cash in on someone else's misfortunes, says alot for us as a race dosent it.
mod makers dont charge. I have no idea how you think you can level the 'cash in' argument against a free mod.

IMHO, this could insult many people if they choose to take it personaly. these same people could also just not play it and not complain. i dont see why anyone who may be offened by it is 'forced' to download and play it. in short, if you dont like it, dont play it.
[/QUOTE]Mods can become consumer products in their own right, (again see "Counter-strike"), but you are right I suppose the cash-in argument doesn't really apply here.


As for the "don't like it, don't play" it suggestion. What if you knew of the existance of an illegal and amoral website on the 'net that violated moral and legal standards. Sure, you may never access the said site but wouldn't its existance annoy and yes, even offend you? Admittedly this isn't the same situation but I can see why those deeply affected by 9-11 would not like this mod to exist ANYWHERE, or distributed despite the fact it is free. The same reason why those against the illegal/amoral sites would not like them to exist.

Sure it's down to personal opinion I suppose, but people have to be aware of the boundaries of taste. However you paint it, this is in bad taste and as Barry the Sprout said way too early for those affected by the attacks. Perhaps later on a respectable homage (in the form of a game) can be created based on the events of 9-11. But this is not a respectable tribute, only offensive if anything IMO.

Thats my opinion.
Sigmar is offline  
Old 09-21-2003, 08:37 PM   #23
Tancred
White Dragon
 

Join Date: April 1, 2001
Location: UK
Age: 43
Posts: 1,893
This is amazing.

What unsettles me here is the thought that someone sat down and thought this up - either in a moment of inspiration ("I know! I'll do THIS") or from planning ("Hmm... of all my ideas, this one is the best"). They then sat down and carefully coded it, constructed it, playtested it and then released it for general consumption.

They may have agonised over it day after day, weighing up the moral implications of what they were refering to, eventually deciding that the mod should go ahead; or they just went ahead and did it with no thoughts on a moral level at all, or any scenario in between. But they still did it.

That's either an act of supreme force of will, of total, idiotic blindness, or of both. Like I say, I'm amazed this was done.

I daresay in a week or so, once the details have sunk in, I'll feel focused enough to be appalled. But until then, I remain gobsmacked.

As for freedom of speech... bah. You may hold an opinion and be extremely vocal about it, but then *I* have the freedom to tell you to take your opinion and stuff it, for example. However, I do not... I know that would hurt your feelings and make you angry. This discussion should not be about freedom of speech. This discussion should be about human understanding, possibly even human empathy... or, conversely, the lack of it.
__________________
\"HELP! I\'ve superglued myself to a flaming bowling ball!\"
Tancred is offline  
Old 09-21-2003, 11:20 PM   #24
Luvian
Ironworks Moderator
 

Join Date: June 27, 2001
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Age: 42
Posts: 6,763
Quote:
Originally posted by Sigmar:


As for the "don't like it, don't play" it suggestion. What if you knew of the existance of an illegal and amoral website on the 'net that violated moral and legal standards. Sure, you may never access the said site but wouldn't its existance annoy and yes, even offend you? Admittedly this isn't the same situation but I can see why those deeply affected by 9-11 would not like this mod to exist ANYWHERE, or distributed despite the fact it is free. The same reason why those against the illegal/amoral sites would not like them to exist.

Well... that mod is not illegal, and there are plenty of amoral websites on the net. But yes, that mod is in bad taste.

I think it wouldn't be so offensive if the mod maker had focused on the survivors and didn't add that part where some players have to die. It might have been a nice homage if it was a game about the survivors.
__________________
Once upon a time in Canada...
Luvian is offline  
Old 09-22-2003, 01:47 AM   #25
/)eathKiller
Dracolisk
 

Join Date: January 5, 2002
Location: Guantanamo Bay, Cuba
Age: 38
Posts: 6,043
Unreal tournament, you should know, has never kept with a tradition of being wholesome or right-winged in any sence. Rather, it's a way for Left-wingers to produce their own deep-willed destructive tendencies without having to vote republican. I guess you could look at it as a game which unites people of all walks of feeling and culture in a single violent environment. I am not suprised by this mod at all. I would just as easily be unsuprised by a UT2003 mod where the player was made into the hijackers, and that they could only score points by ramming the planes they hijac into the towers. With each generation of unreal tournament there comes a new wave of moders who will produce the games of tomorrow. But with an unlimited engien like the Karma engien there are unlimited possibilities. One of the most amazing parts of the UT2003 Karma engien is the realism which it applies to bodies when they jump and or fall. There also have been fun fire-effects. Someone looked at the concept of burning to death and jumping to ones death, saw this engien, and obviously figured that they would have enough free time on their hands to produce a simulator which would gain them alot of attention. It's like how I am working on a manga with a fight scene that results in the destruction of the Atlanta international airport. I simply see something with alot of potential, and, through fiction, I produce something which isn't meant to be enjoyed or dispised, but to be something which exists. Why else do you tihnk we have art? When I look at this mod for UT2003 I see someone who just wants to express free speech, nothing more.
__________________
[img]\"http://membres.lycos.fr/th8or/ZeroSigForIronworks.gif\" alt=\" - \" /> o.o;
/)eathKiller is offline  
Old 09-22-2003, 01:50 AM   #26
Luvian
Ironworks Moderator
 

Join Date: June 27, 2001
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Age: 42
Posts: 6,763
Quote:
Originally posted by /)eathKiller:
Unreal tournament, you should know, has never kept with a tradition of being wholesome or right-winged in any sence. Rather, it's a way for Left-wingers to produce their own deep-willed destructive tendencies without having to vote republican. I guess you could look at it as a game which unites people of all walks of feeling and culture in a single violent environment. I am not suprised by this mod at all. I would just as easily be unsuprised by a UT2003 mod where the player was made into the hijackers, and that they could only score points by ramming the planes they hijac into the towers. With each generation of unreal tournament there comes a new wave of moders who will produce the games of tomorrow. But with an unlimited engien like the Karma engien there are unlimited possibilities. One of the most amazing parts of the UT2003 Karma engien is the realism which it applies to bodies when they jump and or fall. There also have been fun fire-effects. Someone looked at the concept of burning to death and jumping to ones death, saw this engien, and obviously figured that they would have enough free time on their hands to produce a simulator which would gain them alot of attention. It's like how I am working on a manga with a fight scene that results in the destruction of the Atlanta international airport. I simply see something with alot of potential, and, through fiction, I produce something which isn't meant to be enjoyed or dispised, but to be something which exists. Why else do you tihnk we have art? When I look at this mod for UT2003 I see someone who just wants to express free speech, nothing more.
Whoa... I thought it was just an fps...
__________________
Once upon a time in Canada...
Luvian is offline  
Old 09-22-2003, 11:31 AM   #27
Deejax
Manshoon
 

Join Date: November 15, 2002
Location: Amsterdam
Age: 47
Posts: 248
This mod is just timed very badly. I don't think it would raise much protest in 2040.

If you look at other games the same moral or ethical wrongs are made.

It is just because World War II is 60 years ago that we play a lot of WWII games. But a lot of innocent people died and not by accident. Cities were purposely bombed to demoralise the enemy.

Or consider nuclear bombs. I know there are games where the way to win is to nuke your opponents cities. Nice. You should have tried to sell that game in Japan in the 1950's.

It's just too soon for this game.
__________________
<img border=\"0\" alt=\"[firedevil]\" title=\"\" src=\"graemlins/firedevil.gif\" /> Fire...
Deejax is offline  
Old 09-22-2003, 03:30 PM   #28
robertthebard
Xanathar Thieves Guild
 

Join Date: March 17, 2001
Location: Wichita, KS USA
Age: 60
Posts: 4,537
Question Mark

I think it is in bad taste, but...What are we to do, tell people what to do, and what not to do? That system doesn't work very well, as a few former governments will tell you. My opinion? Very bad taste, and even if i played UT, I wouldn't play it. That's the best way to deal with this kind of thing, just ignore it, and hope it goes away. It's not going to affect me, one way or the other if some one else likes it or not. If it doesn't get a lot of response, then it will go away, just like the original Nintendo console, or the Atari. Any one remember those?
__________________
To those we have lost; May your spirits fly free.
Good Music: Here.
Interesting read, one of my blogs.
robertthebard is offline  
Old 09-22-2003, 06:52 PM   #29
Zero Alpha
Avatar
 

Join Date: July 15, 2002
Location: London, England
Age: 39
Posts: 506
im still supprised at the major negative reaction when, get this the mod isn't even out yet. they havent even released a beta. im personlly goint to wait + try it before i condemn somones art.

here is the homepage:
http://www.kinematic.org/911.html

as you can see there is no download link on the site.
__________________
\"RTFM\"<br />\"No i will NOT fix your computer\"<br />\"All\'s fair in sibling war\"
Zero Alpha is offline  
Old 09-22-2003, 08:59 PM   #30
Tancred
White Dragon
 

Join Date: April 1, 2001
Location: UK
Age: 43
Posts: 1,893
Since when did this become someone's 'art'?!? This is the first time I've ever heard a computer game mod referred to as such. You cannot use 'art' as a catch-all excuse to avoid moral responsibility!
__________________
\"HELP! I\'ve superglued myself to a flaming bowling ball!\"
Tancred is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Chocolate health" news somehow mutated into "Who has the best" debate Larry_OHF General Discussion 34 03-25-2007 03:55 AM
8 year old "raped" and "buried alive" in FLORIDA .... a_decent_1 General Discussion 38 05-29-2005 03:46 PM
Searching for "Star Blazers" aka "Uchuu Senchen Yamato," or "Space Battleship Yamato" Skydracgrrl Entertainment (Movies, TV Shows and Books/Comics) 3 12-17-2004 01:38 PM
Searching for "Star Blazers" aka "Uchuu Senchen Yamato," or "Space Battleship Yamato" Skydracgrrl General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005) 0 12-02-2004 09:27 PM
status on "pool of twilight" & "EOB4, xanathar's revenge"? manikus Dungeon Craft - RPG Game Maker 0 05-03-2003 07:28 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2024 Ironworks Gaming & ©2024 The Great Escape Studios TM - All Rights Reserved