The Best We Can Do? - Page 2

skywalker · 10-07-2002, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MagiK:
Oh by the way, just a personal opinion. Jim Jeffords is an idiot. He has been a fence rider with his own personal agenda for years, no matter which party he lines up with. He is hardly the poster boy for moral conviction and leadership. he rides the fence and sides wherever he sees an advantage with no concept of consistancy or leadership. Just my Opinion, hehe guess I lump him right up there with Daschell.

And keep the "idiot" calling to yourself, OK?

Mark

Iron_Ranger · 10-07-2002, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by skywalker:

quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:
[qbqb]

And keep the "idiot" calling to yourself, OK?

Mark[/QUOTE]Why? I am sure you and plenty of other people have called Bush a idiot one then once.

skywalker · 10-07-2002, 12:24 PM

I have and was given a "load" for it.

Mark

Iron_Ranger · 10-07-2002, 12:28 PM

Yeah I have noticed

But you didnt answer my question. Why isnt Magik free to call Jim Jeffords and idiot if you have called Bush an idiot.

I dont see the diffrence. Well beside ones a senator and the other is the president.

skywalker · 10-07-2002, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iron_Ranger:
Yeah I have noticed

But you didnt answer my question. Why isnt Magik free to call Jim Jeffords and idiot if you have called Bush an idiot.

I dont see the diffrence. Well beside ones a senator and the other is the president.

The point is, is that I don't call Dubya an idiot anymore (not here anyway). Get it?

Mark

Iron_Ranger · 10-07-2002, 12:36 PM

So? Just because you dont call him an idiot anymore doesnt mean no one else is free to call someone in the goverment an idiot.

And beside, No one ever said you couldnt call Bush and idiot, as far as I am concernd you can continue to call him whatever you waant. Of course I will keep defending him as long as I think he is doing a good job.

Timber Loftis · 10-07-2002, 12:50 PM

Always nice to pop in and read Magick's OpEd article for the day.

Jeffords is not likely an idiot. The things he points out in his article, regardless of his political agenda for saying them now, are all somewhat true. You couldn't contradict them, so you attacked Jeffords and past Dems and the Dem party, throwing blame around for the past 40 years' wrongs in this Country. Surely you don't expect me to believe you are niave enough to think the issues are so simple you can pin all that wrongdoing on one party.

The truth is that these are problems, and they need to be addressed.

As well, even if Jeffords is playing them now as a political ploy, it's a pretty smart one, again undercutting your belief in his idiocy.
[img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img]

I just don't believe you read the article and thought the issues through before you replied - as evidenced by the number of replies you typed up - a new one added following each new post you read. You had your stance and then tried to make your argument fit it. B- work at best.

skywalker · 10-07-2002, 01:19 PM

That is the big problem with partisan politics. The individuals get blamed for anything the party does. One small point, though, Jeffords may caucus with the Dems, but he is in fact an Independent. I give high points for walking away from the Republicans and trying to do right by the people of Vermont and of the USA.

As has been in the past, even if a party is in power, it is very difficult to enact change. The easiest way for a President to get what he wants is during war time, which I might add is what we are seeing now.

These "idiots" that we call them, have to be pretty damn smart to get elected and do their jobs. These are the jobs that are usually thankless and the most difficult. they are not perfect, afterall they are only human.

Generalizing about Republicans vs. Democrats is a worthless passtime, the parties mean nothing to me, the only thing that is important is the people the politicians represent and the Party should come 2nd.

We cannot allow the Republican party to control the Executive and Legislative branches as it is clear that party comes first and "all" Americans come second.
And on the obverse side the same goes for the Democrats...there has to be balance or I think all hell break loose...thank God for the fillibuster.

Rant Off!

Mark

Bardan the Slayer · 10-07-2002, 01:26 PM

Well, from the perspective of a foreigner, here are my thoughts.

America is no doubt a great country - in it, you can enjoy all the benefits of first world civilization, but however, just like any other country, it has it's problems. Of course it's easy for me to sit over here and criticize, but I'm going to try and do so in a reasonable manner.

The two things that really strike us asbout american culture were two of the things mentioned - the lack of a National Health Service, and the question of education.

As to the first one, with the less-than-happy times I have been through with Reeka recently, I know how reassuring it is to be in a country that has a free National Helath Service. Sure, it's underfunded and badly run, but at least it's there. If I have a child and they suddenly get very sick, we can have them down the hospital, get fixed up, and out, without having to ever worry about paying a cent. It doesn't matter how poor you are (and trust me - I know what it's like to be poor), you can get the medical care you need. Sometimes you may have to wait, but you get it. This is what stuns us about America - when it comes down to the question of "Health Service or lower taxes", you pick lower taxes. Of course, this is your right, but it just seems rather strange that such a forward-looking counrty in terms of personal rights and care of it's populace seems to have a very cold-hearted attitude to healthcare.

The other issue is education. In my country, we are suffering a bit of an education crisis, and one of the main reasons is that kids nowadays are being tested far too much. For "far too much", read "about 4 or 5 times a year, starting from age 5". I was shocked when mixing with some Americans I know outside of the internet, I discovered that american children have 3 hours of homework per night regularly, from the age of 9, and is graded and tested constantly, on a weekly basis from the very start of their education. Maybe if the schools spent more time teaching and less time testing, things wouldn't be so stressful? also, the kids would be able to live a vaguely normal life in that they would have some free time after school, instead of tea ==> homework ==> bedtime. It seems to me that in America, schools are a place where you are tested, and you do your learning at home with your homework. Something about this feels wrong. All you have to do is look at the Japanese - their kids have large problems dealing with constant testing at school and learning at home.

Anyway, this was just an Englishman's perspective on America. Maybe some of the things have said are worng, and I'm certain;y not trying to bash America. Hell, if all goes well, I may end up living there

This topic just caught my eye, and I thought I'd chip in with the overseas perspective [img]smile.gif[/img]

10-07-2002, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by skywalker:

quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:
Oh by the way, just a personal opinion. Jim Jeffords is an idiot. He has been a fence rider with his own personal agenda for years, no matter which party he lines up with. He is hardly the poster boy for moral conviction and leadership. he rides the fence and sides wherever he sees an advantage with no concept of consistancy or leadership. Just my Opinion, hehe guess I lump him right up there with Daschell.

And keep the "idiot" calling to yourself, OK?

Mark[/QUOTE]Ok, I wont call your candidates idiots if you quit callin mine idiots

sorry.

[ 10-07-2002, 01:31 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

10-07-2002, 12:28 PM	#14
Iron_Ranger Symbol of Cyric Join Date: August 18, 2002 Location: Where Eagles Dare Age: 36 Posts: 1,391	Yeah I have noticed But you didnt answer my question. Why isnt Magik free to call Jim Jeffords and idiot if you have called Bush an idiot. I dont see the diffrence. Well beside ones a senator and the other is the president. __________________ <br />[url]\"http://www.bratgirlcentral.com/cgi-bin/ouapforum/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi\" target=\"_blank\">Once Upon A Paper</a><br />Living on a razors edge<br />Balancing on ledge<br />Living on a razors edge

10-07-2002, 12:36 PM	#16
Iron_Ranger Symbol of Cyric Join Date: August 18, 2002 Location: Where Eagles Dare Age: 36 Posts: 1,391	So? Just because you dont call him an idiot anymore doesnt mean no one else is free to call someone in the goverment an idiot. And beside, No one ever said you couldnt call Bush and idiot, as far as I am concernd you can continue to call him whatever you waant. Of course I will keep defending him as long as I think he is doing a good job. __________________ <br />[url]\"http://www.bratgirlcentral.com/cgi-bin/ouapforum/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi\" target=\"_blank\">Once Upon A Paper</a><br />Living on a razors edge<br />Balancing on ledge<br />Living on a razors edge

10-07-2002, 12:50 PM	#17
Timber Loftis 40th Level Warrior Join Date: July 11, 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 11,916	Always nice to pop in and read Magick's OpEd article for the day. Jeffords is not likely an idiot. The things he points out in his article, regardless of his political agenda for saying them now, are all somewhat true. You couldn't contradict them, so you attacked Jeffords and past Dems and the Dem party, throwing blame around for the past 40 years' wrongs in this Country. Surely you don't expect me to believe you are niave enough to think the issues are so simple you can pin all that wrongdoing on one party. The truth is that these are problems, and they need to be addressed. As well, even if Jeffords is playing them now as a political ploy, it's a pretty smart one, again undercutting your belief in his idiocy. [img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img] I just don't believe you read the article and thought the issues through before you replied - as evidenced by the number of replies you typed up - a new one added following each new post you read. You had your stance and then tried to make your argument fit it. B- work at best. __________________

10-07-2002, 01:26 PM	#19
Bardan the Slayer Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: August 16, 2002 Location: Newcastle, England Age: 45 Posts: 699	Well, from the perspective of a foreigner, here are my thoughts. America is no doubt a great country - in it, you can enjoy all the benefits of first world civilization, but however, just like any other country, it has it's problems. Of course it's easy for me to sit over here and criticize, but I'm going to try and do so in a reasonable manner. The two things that really strike us asbout american culture were two of the things mentioned - the lack of a National Health Service, and the question of education. As to the first one, with the less-than-happy times I have been through with Reeka recently, I know how reassuring it is to be in a country that has a free National Helath Service. Sure, it's underfunded and badly run, but at least it's there. If I have a child and they suddenly get very sick, we can have them down the hospital, get fixed up, and out, without having to ever worry about paying a cent. It doesn't matter how poor you are (and trust me - I know what it's like to be poor), you can get the medical care you need. Sometimes you may have to wait, but you get it. This is what stuns us about America - when it comes down to the question of "Health Service or lower taxes", you pick lower taxes. Of course, this is your right, but it just seems rather strange that such a forward-looking counrty in terms of personal rights and care of it's populace seems to have a very cold-hearted attitude to healthcare. The other issue is education. In my country, we are suffering a bit of an education crisis, and one of the main reasons is that kids nowadays are being tested far too much. For "far too much", read "about 4 or 5 times a year, starting from age 5". I was shocked when mixing with some Americans I know outside of the internet, I discovered that american children have 3 hours of homework per night regularly, from the age of 9, and is graded and tested constantly, on a weekly basis from the very start of their education. Maybe if the schools spent more time teaching and less time testing, things wouldn't be so stressful? also, the kids would be able to live a vaguely normal life in that they would have some free time after school, instead of tea ==> homework ==> bedtime. It seems to me that in America, schools are a place where you are tested, and you do your learning at home with your homework. Something about this feels wrong. All you have to do is look at the Japanese - their kids have large problems dealing with constant testing at school and learning at home. Anyway, this was just an Englishman's perspective on America. Maybe some of the things have said are worng, and I'm certain;y not trying to bash America. Hell, if all goes well, I may end up living there This topic just caught my eye, and I thought I'd chip in with the overseas perspective [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ <br />[url]\"http://www.the-silver-river.com\" target=\"_blank\">Admin and Co-Owner of The Silver River!</a><br />[url]\"http://www.the-silver-river.com/Photo%20Album/Reeka.html\" target=\"_blank\">SMNOOOOOOCH!</a> You know who it\'s meant for <img border=\"0\" title=\"\" alt=\"[Wink]\" src=\"wink.gif\" />

10-07-2002, 12:24 PM	#13
skywalker Banned User Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: VT, USA Age: 63 Posts: 3,097	I have and was given a "load" for it. Mark

10-07-2002, 01:19 PM	#18
skywalker Banned User Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: VT, USA Age: 63 Posts: 3,097	That is the big problem with partisan politics. The individuals get blamed for anything the party does. One small point, though, Jeffords may caucus with the Dems, but he is in fact an Independent. I give high points for walking away from the Republicans and trying to do right by the people of Vermont and of the USA. As has been in the past, even if a party is in power, it is very difficult to enact change. The easiest way for a President to get what he wants is during war time, which I might add is what we are seeing now. These "idiots" that we call them, have to be pretty damn smart to get elected and do their jobs. These are the jobs that are usually thankless and the most difficult. they are not perfect, afterall they are only human. Generalizing about Republicans vs. Democrats is a worthless passtime, the parties mean nothing to me, the only thing that is important is the people the politicians represent and the Party should come 2nd. We cannot allow the Republican party to control the Executive and Legislative branches as it is clear that party comes first and "all" Americans come second. And on the obverse side the same goes for the Democrats...there has to be balance or I think all hell break loose...thank God for the fillibuster. Rant Off! Mark

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