Might vs. Magic

[ScottG]

like a bad rash I'm back.. (was on a little NWN's trip there for a while - and will be again soon with HOTU).

This topic really depends on several things:
Party makeup - character levels.
Party makeup - with regard to melee'ers vs. magic casters. (# of)
Party makeup - with regard to types of casters and overlaping of spells & number of spells and types available.
Monster types - how many hitpoints.
Monster types - quantity.
Monster types - type and level of magic resistance.


In truth magic can be MUCH more effective than melee ability against most monsters. Why? A. Most combat situtions envolve MANY monsters. B. melee (or ranged for that matter) is limited by number of attacks vs. opponents. (And for purely melee you also have distance as a factor.)

Ultimatly what this means is that in a round a melee attacker may be able to attack 1 monster (2 and 3 latter in the game), wheras a magic user casting area effect spells can hit multiple targets each round at any level. The real key to success here is having the same spell cast in multiples (I prefer 3 or more casting the same spell). This means that even if you don't have powercast, and or your opponents are highly resistant, and or your spell level is weak - you have a strong probability of hiting your opponent at least once per round. And it doesn't take long to crank-up the power level of a first or second level spell. Typically EVEN when I reach AP my most utilized spell is? (anyone?)

btw, you only need modest levels of intelligence (unless you feel compelled to have powercast). (you don't need piety.) As much as I find hybrids redundant (with proper strategy), this allows them to be effective offensive casters.

[Slag]

I've wondered, do Bards and Gadgeteers get any benefit from powercast? Also, if you don't multi-class them, is their effectiveness level-based? For instance, is a 28 bard more effective with music than a 18 bard with the same skill? I'm trying to decide where to go with these classes. They don't really fit into either category quite right, but they are powerful if used to their potential.

[DraconFighter]

I've not played a Gadgeteer, but Bards get no benefit whatever from powercast. I always leave her intelligence right at the starting number.

To learn to play a new instrument, both the level of the Bard and the music skill come into play. I wouldn't dream of changing a Bard to any other class.

The Bard is my favorite character to play. I give her Bloodlust, max Strength and Dexterity first, then Senses and Speed. You can stop Speed at 55 if you wish because the Bard's Rousing drums will get everyone 125 Speed. I try to get all the special Bard items to have her Strength 125, Dexterity 120, Senses 125, Speed 125. I put skill points in Music, L&T, Sword, Close Combat, and eventually Powerstrike. She deals more damage per attack than my Fighter with Fang and Diamond Eyes.

holy whippet - i run into the same "style" issue when i use a bishop as my party's sole/primary spellcaster. they tend to turn into a defensive/buff/healmeister and contribute offense only as a secondary thought (often toxic cloud, my favourite spell). however, if you play other combinations of spell casters (my wife loves mage and alchemist side by side), you'll find your style will adapt and magic will come to the fore.

slag - powercast does nothing for bards or gadg's. i concur with dracon fighter on every point about bard development - except maybe vitality instead of speed fourth in development.

scottg - good to have you back

one thought about your statement regarding intelligence. it is true that through the mid-game pures and even hybrids who dont develop intelligence to maximum levels can both cast and learn quite effectively. however, by the late game, the high resistances of monsters gimp them terribly. i believe some testing eew did calculated that it could mean as much as a 60% reduction in damage caused by a samurai as opposed to a mage, using the same spell, at the same level, with similar stats (excepting powercast).

so leveraging hybrids through the mid-game to add up the damage, a la wild rose's observations, is a valid strategy. but by the end game, it's more effective to have them shooting 6 lightning bolts when attacking at range.

(of course, the flexibility of having hybrids who can buff, etc. can offer strategic advantages as well - and does not require powercast to be effective!)