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Old 05-31-2007, 09:03 AM   #11
Klorox
Symbol of Cyric
 

Join Date: August 21, 2004
Location: USA
Age: 48
Posts: 1,168
Quote:
Originally posted by Aerich:
I don't think a F/Ill should be the main spellcaster and backup tank. I prefer to optimize it as a tank and carry a full mage (not just a bard), preferably a mc, as the primary offensive caster. For me, HoF is all about maximizing spell capability and blending it with capable meleers.
Wait, when you say your main mage should be a mc, do you mean mage/cleric or multiclassed? I'm not a big fan of mage/clerics because I think it's cool to have every member get ** in a missile weapon, so I try to have every character (except the bard, of course) be part fighter or ranger. I also think that multiclassing two spellcasting classes limits your spell output. If you have a fighter/mage AND a ranger/cleric, they can both cast a spell in combat. Just a difference in tactics, I guess.

Quote:
Originally posted by Aerich:
The problem with using your bard to cast in combat is that it takes a full round for the singing effects to kick in again. It's not like IWD2 where the Lingering Song feat allows you to stop singing and cast without losing song effects. When in melee against strong opponents, that 10% resistance to melee damage may actually be more valuable for character survival than most spells your bard can cast.
I usually try to open combat with a fireball, skulltrap, or some other ranged damage spell with my bard, and then start singing and backing up my tanks. The reason I favor a gnome F/T tank is because I love having him evade that fireball from my bard.

Quote:
Originally posted by Dancing Virginia:
So all things being equal, you all would propose a magic-heavy party?
The problem in IWD1 is that all arcane casters need scrolls, and there is a shortage (and they get expensive too). You can probably carry 3 maximum, as long as you only have 1 "main" mage. Having one guy concentrate on defensive spells and using him as a spellsword works well too.
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Old 06-02-2007, 01:06 AM   #12
Aerich
Lord Ao
 

Join Date: May 27, 2004
Location: Canada
Age: 42
Posts: 2,061
I wrote a huge post yesterday but lost it on posting when the site went down. I'll try to re-create it, but more concisely.

@ Dancing Virginia:

1) I recommend multiclassing clerics and druids, to rangers and fighters, respectively. I'm not a huge fan of a thief dualclass at the best of times, but the Ill/T combo can work. If doing HoF, I'd take a few more thief levels because you will max out most single-class (or low dc) characters.

2) Based on your party posted above, I'd recommend - paladin, Ill/T (dual or multi, so long as the Ill can keep advancing), R/Cl, F/D, and bard. For a sixth character, I'd take a F/M multiclass - giving you a versatile character that can be an archer, bomber, or meleer, as necessary.

3) I do not think rangers can dc as arcane casters. I know they cannot mc. Cleric is a much better mc or dc option for rangers anyway, since rangers have a minimum Wis requirement and no Int requirement - making for easier, if min-maxed, stat distribution.

4) MC vs DC advantages is a discussion that could go on all day. In short:
a) mc can access all skills of both classes at all times - critical for HoF from the start, where you need every advantage you can muster
b) dc fighters can be offensive monsters, but this advamtage is offset (IMO) by the extreme HP of HoF enemies.
c) dc spellcasters (second class) with low-to-medium (e.g. 1-12) levels in the first class will progress faster as casters in the mid-game
d) the general rules holds true - mc is more versatile without dips in character power, dc can be a better melee threat. Further, mc is arguably more powerful at low and very high levels, while dc may be better at middle-high levels.

--------

@ Klorox: I meant multiclassed, although there are situations where a dc is fine.

Multiclassing two spellcasting classes in IWD1 does not limit spell output. A M/Cl will have about double the spells of a F/M, for example. I've used the M/C on a couple of occasions, and they can cast spells for round after round, and cover off any role you need (buffing, spellbomber, spelltraps, healing, summoning). They are, however, almost useless with weapons.

There is no difference in tactics. My IWD/HoW HoF parties always feature spellcasting power combined with weapons ability. I used a M/C instead of a bard in one HoF-from-start party, and ended up with about 190 total levels in spellcasting classes (also used a F/Ill multiclass as main tank instead of a paladin).

Opening combat with an area-effect damaging spell is a fine tactic on normal, and a F/T works ok. Have you tried it on HoF, particularly HoF from the start where you don't have overpowered equipment in the early-to-mid game? Strong monsters become "barely injured" and a F/T tank becomes "barely walking". Trust me, it is NOT a viable option for HoF. A fully buffed paladin tank often gets whacked by certain enemies (golems, giants, and the like), and a F/T is much less capable at evading melee damage (no spells and much fewer HP).

3 arcane casters is very manageable. Bards get often-used party buffs and a few offensive spells (mostly "desperation" spells, e.g. Chromatic Orb and Stone to Flesh) and summons. The other two split most of the scrolls, paying attention to their respective roles; I recommend one to focus on spellbombing, and the other to focus on melee - e.g. touch and cone spells, plus defensive spells and some spells for spelltraps (e.g. Death Fog, Cloudkill, Slow). I wouldn't worry about cost. You have to clear inventory of lots of semi-useful magical weapons anyway, so sell a little more for the cash.

[ 06-02-2007, 01:16 AM: Message edited by: Aerich ]
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Old 06-04-2007, 01:13 PM   #13
Klorox
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Join Date: August 21, 2004
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I know multiclassing won't limit the number of spells known, but it will limit the number of spells you can cast at one time. for instance, a F/C and a F/M can each cast a spell in 1 round. for a C/M to cast the same spells, it'll take 2 rounds.

As to the F/T, it has worked for me, but the way I've played HoF mode is a little wimpier than most: I use summons out the rear. Early levels are spent charming monsters too.

I guess I can see how powerful a dual-classed Fighter> anything could be really powerful (especially with the weapon mastery rules), but I just don't have the patience to get a Fighter to level 13 (minimum), then basically lose him for a long time before gaining his powers back. I'd also be really pissed off if I got my Fighter > Cleric ***** in Warhammers, but then found a superior Mace. This isn't like Baldur's Gate where you can pump up the weapon slots after dual classing, you're stuck with only * in any weapon after dualling.
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Old 06-19-2007, 07:04 PM   #14
Roboghost
Manshoon
 

Join Date: May 15, 2002
Location: California
Posts: 216
Okay...I'm bored at work today, so I'll plop in my current HoF party that is an unstoppable force (trolls are my only weakness until late - I wanted to try and bump up the archer-power a bit this round. Normally I'd have two fighter types -- one specifically a troll-killer):

Listing their ultimate weapons, so beware the spoilers below...
.
.
.
.
.
1. Gnome Fighter 18/00 18 18 9 8 10
Helm of the Trusted Defender (haste machine)
Axe ***** (Throwing Axe +2 & Axe of the Minotaur Lord)
Mace ***** (Morning Star +4: Defender & Three White Doves)
Long Sword ** (Flaming Long Sword +2 - trolls)
Crossbow ** (for the nice bolts you come across)

2. Dwarf Fighter/Cleric 18/93 17 19 8 18 8
Fire Flail +3 (trolls) & Shocking Flail +4

3. Half-Elf Fighter/Druid 18/88 18 18 5 18 15
Svian's Club & Wind of Heaven

4. Halfling Fighter/Thief 17 19 18 12 10 11
Long Sword of Action +4 & Short Bow of Ebullience

5. Elf Fighter/Mage 18/78 19 17 18 8 10
Long Sword of Action +4 & Black Bow

6. Half-Elf Bard 12 18 16 18 13 18
Fang of the Gloomfrost (for the spells only)

I'm strange in that I like to lay out their wardrobe and weapons ahead of time. I enjoy building them up to it as much as playing the game -- power hungry I guess. On an interesting note: I DON'T care to acquire the Elven Chains' -- I prefer the other random items that are in their places. I'll give you my Bard's final wardrobe as an example below on how to skip the chain:

Armor Naked - hey, she's cute!
Shield Lyre of Progression
Cloak Wailing of Virgins
Helm Sune's Laurel of Favor
Girdle Golden Girdle
Bracers Bracers of Defense A.C. 6
Boots Boots of Grounding
Amulet Amulet of Metaspell Influence
Ring 1 Ring of Protection +2
Ring 2 Ring of Free Action

With a DEX of 18, this gives a basic AC of -1, but combine the cloak and girdle and it drops to -5 (-6 slashing.) Bards stay out of fights anyway ; )
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