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Old 05-25-2004, 04:58 AM   #21
The Hierophant
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Black baron: We quite literally live in different worlds, and will never understand each other, although not for lack of wanting or trying. Nevertheless, I wish you all the best.
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Old 05-25-2004, 05:02 AM   #22
Black Baron
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Faceman-they are not our civilians, they do not have the papers they are civilians of the PA. Gaza is PA it is not Israel. When 2 sides engage in a martial conflict it is caleld war. Your claim that we have no war here is groundless. We killed people, they killed people. What is it then if not a war? By the way you manage to contradict yourself. We have (according to your post)in a state of war because: "If the army is on the streets for several years in a row it's war". Operation "defensive shiled" etc, are ok according to your defenition.
BTW-where does war happen? In outer space? it happens in a country so your claim for a civil war is unacceptable. Israel is small and territories and gaza even smaller. It does not means that we fight in the same country. We have PA Vs Israel.

Your history books are wrong. I will not go far-America vs Tunis war. Or how the english dealt with uprisings in their muslim colonies. Your history books are too selective.
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Old 05-25-2004, 06:02 AM   #23
Faceman
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So Gaza is a different country then?
Then why are there still Israeli troops.
War for territorial gain? This has been outlawed since the mid 20ies (Briand-Kellog).
Are the English still controlling this colonies?
Did they economically gain by quelling the uprisings with force?
Especially when it comes to colonism there's a simple formula:
Oppression+peace=profit
Oppression+unrest+cooperation=profit
Oppression+uprising+bloodyconflict=civil war=loss of resources => retreat

So tell me as I am confused:
1. What state is Israel in? War, Civil War, Peace?
2. Which country do Gaza and the Westbank belong to?
3. What do you call a conflict that is confined to 1 country?

IMHO Israel has two ways out:
1. Leave. (which is unrealistic, hardly feasible and IMO not the best solution)
2. Give the Palestinians Israeli passports. Let politics sort it out!

Either Gaza and Westbank are part of Israel then their inhabitants are too, or they are not then what the hell are Israeli troops doing there?
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Old 05-25-2004, 08:31 AM   #24
Black Baron
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I answer by points:

We are there because terrorists have their arms supply there, as well as arms route and they atack us from there.

English do not controll the colonies, yes, but not because they failed to annahilate the resistanse.

We ar at war with PA.

certain areas of the westbank belong to PA, gaza belongs to PA.

PA is not israel, therefore the conflict is between 2 states-Palestinian autonomy and Israel.

Israel has 2 ways indeed. The second is unrealistic. They are not wanted here. We do not wish to have such a "marvelous" neighbors that wish to kill us.(I do not talk about palestinians, i talk about terrorists.)

The first is realistic. It is the same situation as France had with Algiria. France annahilated and obliterated the "resistance" (read-guerilla warfare terrorists). Then France pulled away.

Gaza is not part of israel. We are there due to reasons listed above. Sharon is also willing to pull the civilians out of there.

Westbank areas where there are no palestinians (or almost none) and where is total majority of jews are parts of israel. Such territories are less then 10% of all occupied territories.

I hope that now you understand the situation a bit more. [img]smile.gif[/img]
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Old 05-25-2004, 09:13 AM   #25
Masklinn
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Quote:
Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
quote:
For every terrorist you catch you incite two new ones.
You may stop the weapon smugglers today but if you destroy some homes in the course you've just made the most effective PR for every terrorist in the area and doubled their numbers tomorrow.
I'm a little bored and a little sick of hearing this argument. It is nothing more than an excuse to do nothing. If you kill terrorists and their sympathizers, you will eventually get them all. If along the way, all Palestinians become terrorist based on the reasoning you state above, then the equation simply becomes one where killing all the terrorists also equals killing all the Palestinians. If that is their choice, so be it. But it is wrong to cowtow to terrorists. There is only one right answer -- overwhelming and brutal reactionary force in opposition to any terrorist activity.

MY OPINION.
[/QUOTE]TL, what I will say may shock you (so I apologize in advance) but, if you were born palestinian, seeing how you talk and how you react, seeing your position and words about certain topic, I am 99% sure that you would have carried yourself a bomb in an israeli crowded place. Brutal force in opposition to brutal force...yay...
But we'll never know, and that's maybe better this way.

(And I'm sorry if I shocked you or hurted you)
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Old 05-25-2004, 09:14 AM   #26
The Hierophant
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You will fail to annihilate the resistance too Black Baron. You will never, ever win this war. It's not pacifism, it's prophecy It's not too late for you to walk away though. Leave the greedy fools to their land grabs. Do you really love the land you live on? Or do you just want to belong to a gang? Just walk away. There are plenty of places you can move to. Don't kill yourself over someone else's nationalist hallucinations.
Israel? What is Israel? A name. A series of squiggly lines on a map. Just like every other 'nation' that ever was or ever will be. It's a political and economic deal, a f**king series of handshakes, nothing more. 'The body and soul of Israel will go the way of all other bodies and all other souls'. Judging by your sig I assume you are a Dune fan, surely you understand those words then? [img]smile.gif[/img]
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Old 05-25-2004, 10:07 AM   #27
Yorick
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Hierophant:
You will fail to annihilate the resistance too Black Baron. You will never, ever win this war. It's not pacifism, it's prophecy It's not too late for you to walk away though. Leave the greedy fools to their land grabs. Do you really love the land you live on? Or do you just want to belong to a gang? Just walk away. There are plenty of places you can move to. Don't kill yourself over someone else's nationalist hallucinations.
Israel? What is Israel? A name. A series of squiggly lines on a map. Just like every other 'nation' that ever was or ever will be. It's a political and economic deal, a f**king series of handshakes, nothing more. 'The body and soul of Israel will go the way of all other bodies and all other souls'. Judging by your sig I assume you are a Dune fan, surely you understand those words then? [img]smile.gif[/img]
Is that what you guys told the Maoris? Is that why there are more of them in Sydney than your New Zealand? Wow. Strong words from an English speaker who has plenty of the world to go and speak English and feel at home in an English culture.

When and if you choose to live as an alien, totally at odds with the culture around you, you may feel why, to some, having a homeland is an important thing.

You devalidate so many peoples cares, pains and sufferings with your words. The Armenian, the Kurd, the Gypsie, the Jew. Try and see outside your Anglo-Saxon, new world perspective and be a little more sensative mate.
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Old 05-25-2004, 10:28 AM   #28
Black Baron
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If one is not willing to die for his country he has no right for this country. I can say the same to you, regarding your state. It is mine state, why should i move? I will not give ************************* the pleasure of seeing me go. I will take my pleasure in staing. i will kill those that want to kill me.
Anyway iin 100 years the "oil rule" will be over. Then we will deal with this resistance (if it will exist till then) as we see fit. I predict our victory at the same moment when a barrel will cost 1/2 dollar.It will take some time, but we are patient, unlike you that want easy solution.
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Old 05-25-2004, 11:26 AM   #29
Shaide
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Black Baron said they are in war with Palestina, then Israel is invaded Palestina (there are israelis troops in Gaza)...
Why the ONU didnt do something?
When Iraq invaded Kuwait the rich nations vomited troops to protect Kuwait, but what is the difference between Kuwait and Palestina?...
Ah! I forget, the difference is the oil.
In this way It's seems If you have oil and you are friend of rich nations then your civilians are good persons (not terrorist).
Really the money is who rules in this world.
It's a pity.
What should we do?

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Old 05-25-2004, 11:53 AM   #30
Black Baron
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Help us in fighting terrorrists. And Eu does do things. it does too much. It condemns and it threatens us with embargo, which we will not survive.
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