US economic situation for dummies

[Memnoch]

I posted this on my Facebook page a few weeks ago but not all of you here are on my friends list, so I'm just sharing!

[Ziroc]

WOW.... yeah, good pic! amazing isn't it?

[wellard]

Good post Mems

I posted something about a year ago showing how much each person in the USA owns - It is scary stuff.

[Chewbacca]

Hard, truth that is.

[Azred]

I was telling Noty the other day that my belief now is that we are beyond the point of no return--no one's attempts to balance the budget or reign in spending will solve the overwhelming debt problem. In short, it is only a matter of time before the system crashes and burns.

The time to solve this stuff was 20 years ago, when solving it was still possible. At this point, either dramatic revenue increases have to be enacted--raising the taxes on all individuals and closing all corporate tax loopholes--or extreme cuts in spending, primarily on military and entitlements (no more Social Security) will have to enacted. Possibly both. The problem here is that no politician who wants to be reelected will do either of those things; thus, the problems will remain unsolved.

[robertthebard]

Originally Posted by Azred I was telling Noty the other day that my belief now is that we are beyond the point of no return--no one's attempts to balance the budget or reign in spending will solve the overwhelming debt problem. In short, it is only a matter of time before the system crashes and burns. The time to solve this stuff was 20 years ago, when solving it was still possible. At this point, either dramatic revenue increases have to be enacted--raising the taxes on all individuals and closing all corporate tax loopholes--or extreme cuts in spending, primarily on military and entitlements (no more Social Security) will have to enacted. Possibly both. The problem here is that no politician who wants to be reelected will do either of those things; thus, the problems will remain unsolved.

The problem with Social Security is that I paid into the system to have that money when I retired. I said this in another topic, but go ahead and stop paying mine, right after you cut a check for what I paid in my whole working life, with interest, and do the same for everyone else that's paid in. Do this, and immediately stop pulling Soc Sec out of the workforce's pay. Do you see the problem here?

Social Security, as it was originally written up, is not an entitlement. Food Stamps for that 19 year old girl with 3 kids that simply can't keep her pants on, that's an entitlement. Paying her rent, even if she's living with her mother, that's an entitlement. Paying her health care is an entitlement. Paying money back to people that paid it to you in good faith as a retirement fund, that is not an entitlement, other than they are entitled to get the money they paid back.

[Azred]

Originally Posted by robertthebard The problem with Social Security is that I paid into the system to have that money when I retired. I said this in another topic, but go ahead and stop paying mine, right after you cut a check for what I paid in my whole working life, with interest, and do the same for everyone else that's paid in. Do this, and immediately stop pulling Soc Sec out of the workforce's pay. Do you see the problem here? Social Security, as it was originally written up, is not an entitlement. Food Stamps for that 19 year old girl with 3 kids that simply can't keep her pants on, that's an entitlement. Paying her rent, even if she's living with her mother, that's an entitlement. Paying her health care is an entitlement. Paying money back to people that paid it to you in good faith as a retirement fund, that is not an entitlement, other than they are entitled to get the money they paid back.

Make no mistake about it--I am in total agreement with you. I was merely hyptothesizing that no one is going to be able to resolve our budget problems without extreme draconian measures of some sort. No matter what solution of this type is presented, it will be bad in the short term even if the long term goal is acceptable.

I, myself, would love to have only the principal I have paid into Social Security during my working life (the government may keep the interest on the principal for free), stop withholding that deduction from my paychecks, and then I will never take a single dime from it for as long as I live. I really do wish I could opt out.

Does anyone else think we are already past the point of no return, or am I alone in this?

[Ziroc]

DJI is down 254 pts right now... here we go.... spooked....

[Memnoch]

Originally Posted by Azred I was telling Noty the other day that my belief now is that we are beyond the point of no return--no one's attempts to balance the budget or reign in spending will solve the overwhelming debt problem. In short, it is only a matter of time before the system crashes and burns. The time to solve this stuff was 20 years ago, when solving it was still possible. At this point, either dramatic revenue increases have to be enacted--raising the taxes on all individuals and closing all corporate tax loopholes--or extreme cuts in spending, primarily on military and entitlements (no more Social Security) will have to enacted. Possibly both. The problem here is that no politician who wants to be reelected will do either of those things; thus, the problems will remain unsolved.

It's true. Because look at the reaction of the Greeks to the harsh austerity measures that the government has put in there - nobody wants to a) suddenly pay HEAPS more taxes than they used to, especially if they don't think the problem was their fault; or b) have their pensions, social security, police/military protection etc that they all paid into for years and years just get taken away. And of course nobody in government wants to advocate any of that because they will never get re-elected.

It's not even us - it's the generations to come after us that will deal with the problems that have been created all this time. And we can play the blame game all we like, like the supercommittee is doing now, blaming each other, but end of day how does knowing who was at fault help anyone other than the politicians who are covering their arses? It has to be fixed, someone has to show leadership and get it done. Instead we are paralysed by an inability to get things done, because people (even in this forum) fundamentally disagree on what needs to be done and how, and they all think they are right.

[johnny]

Ah well, you could always classify pizza and fries as vegetables, that will make life look a bit less complicated.