N.S. allows same-sex marriages

[Stratos]

Originally posted by Morgan_Corbesant: Sadam and Gamora (sp) enough said.

Saddam? Is he gay?

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Sorry, Morgan, but if you'll excuse me I won't look at it from a religious standpoint when arguing law. That's not how our country works. And I can't go into detail due to the ban, but know this: There's more to Sodom and Gomorrah than homosexuality. There were more reasons there.

As for your "natural" argument... If it's not natural to homosexuals to be attracted to men, are you suggesting they chose to be the way they are? Because that would be really stupid on their part. To pick a life of condemnation and ignorance and all.

Besides, your argument falls apart when looking at the documentated cases of homosexuality in nature. I have a lovely article on the subject... When I find it I'll post it.

[ 10-02-2004, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: Illumina Drathiran'ar ]

[Morgan_Corbesant]

Originally posted by Illumina Drathiran'ar: Sorry, Morgan, but if you'll excuse me I won't look at it from a religious standpoint when arguing law. That's not how our country works. And I can't go into detail due to the ban, but know this: There's more to Sodom and Gomorrah than homosexuality. There were more reasons there. As for your "natural" argument... If it's not natural to homosexuals to be attracted to men, are you suggesting they chose to be the way they are? Because that would be really stupid on their part. To pick a life of condemnation and ignorance and all. Besides, your argument falls apart when looking at the documentated cases of homosexuality in nature. I have a lovely article on the subject... When I find it I'll post it.

First of all, our forfathers would have made this law had they known what would have come of it had they not.

Second of all, our country was founded on christianic ideals. I'm not a christian but I know that our forfathers were and it states IN the bible "man shall not lay with man" or something to that effect.

Our constitution is raped on a grand scale by those claiming their "constitutional rights". Laws are there yes, but there is an INTENT to the law. If you are speeding because you are in a hurry for nothing important, you will get a ticket. If you are speeding because your wife is in labor, or your kid busted his head open, or your daughter lost her finger and you are trying to get to the hospital, 9 times out of 10 the police will turn on the sirens and give you an escort (trust me).

The INTENT of a law is there for safety, but most of them aren't supposed to be followed blindly. There is an INTENT to the constitution. It is to give freedom and equality, this is true. I DO believe that alot of people choose to be the way they are. Its "trendy" in America to be gay nowadays. Everyone knows this, and now its running rampant. States like Hawaii, Oregon, and Nevada are breeding grounds. These liberal states allow these things because they can find a "crack" in the constitution.

Thirdly...I said the thing about animals in nature because they don't do it for REPRODUCTION, its confusion. It happens in captivety sure. If an animal is born and raised in captivet, it doesn't know better. A pride of lions generaly consists of one male and various females, all of which "belong" to the male of the group. NATURE all goes back to the sperm and egg theory.

Now as far as those who cannot concieve...I never said they have to be fertile, just that its NATURAL for males/females to be with each other. I'm sorry if my non-liberal views seem to cloud the issue of "acceptance" but I'm a realist. Two men can't have children together, thus its not supposed to be.

Slightly graphic ahead...kids beware...or those with weak stomachs
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you show me a vagina that fits into another and a penis that fits into another. It doesn't work. A penis is made for the specific purpose of going into a vagina and depositing sperm. Females natural lubricant is produced to make this process easier. Humans and dolphins are the only two mammals who have sexual relations for the sake of "fun". Some choose to be unnatural about it. Like I said, I have friends and aquintances that are gay, and they know and respect my views...and concied some of my points mind you. Their response is "Its my choice, and I'm happy with it". See that, "my CHOICE".

Sorry, but im a Taurus, I'm stubborn. I'm open minded however. If you show me evidence that its supposed to be, I'll accept it. I need to find the scientific data showing that its imposible to be a genetic or physiological makeup that makes people gay... because of the pheramone issue. Bah, I could go on all day and I'm probably gonna be in trouble with the mods as is, heh. Again, I'm sorry to offend anyone but these are my views.

[ 10-02-2004, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Morgan_Corbesant ]

[Morgan_Corbesant]

Oh, sorry. I didn't realize there was a ban on religious discussion. I need to pay more attention.

[aleph_null1]

Right...

So the issue here really isn't about homosexuality, but about marriage.

Why do we have marriage? Why do we give tax breaks, among other things, to a pair of people who want to officially live together? What is the function of marriage?

Just some thoughts...

[Oblivion437]

Here's a wonderful idea: Back government controls on marital contracts/relations completely!

This message of Civil Libertarianism brought to you by Drew Carey

[Dave_the_quack]

Sorry Morgan, but I really reckon we got off topic on that post. (something I cant/shouldnt really be pulling someone ELSE up on lol)

The issue is why gays cant get married, not whether or not it is considered to be "natural" or whatnot. I did not choose to be gay, I chose to be myself. I am not attracted to women in any way, shape or form, in the same way you are not attracted to men. Is that so hard to comprehend? I did not choose this, it is just what happened, or what was place upon me. I have grown up in a very "straight" environment and community, and highly doubt that I was influenced to make this "decision" ....

(its NOT a decision morgan, im telling you now you dont know what its like, fair enough you have friends, but, they arent me. If I could be straight, I would, but I cant because im not and will not pretend or conform to make others feel more comfortable)

... to be gay because its 'trendy'. I know there are some sheep in society that would pretend to be gay just to get noticed, but i think you will find that a lot more people are choosing to come out in today's society simply because it is more tolerated now than ever before, less discrimination (still too much, mind you) and there is less fear on OUR parts to be ourselves.

Now, back to the marriage issue. Is marriage simply not a union between two people who love each other? What does "being naturally able to concieve" have anything to do with it? I doubt ANYONE can quote what God did and did not intend, and I've also heard there are excerpts in the bible that do NOT discourage homosexuality. But, with the ban on religious topics comes the end of THAT particular point.

Gay marriage being allowed is inevitable. Why fight it and make it so horrible for us and just accept the fact we have the same right as everyone. Im no different to you, and reserve the right to have a legally binding union with my partner, recognised by God.

The next step I think is not marriage (I'm being realistic, its not going to happen in the immediate future), but for the Government to allow a union between two males/females that has all the legal rights and benefits that a marriage brings.

The next step after that would be for the Government to allow religious gays/lesbians have their union witnessed by God. There really shouldnt be a problem anyway, if God has a problem with gay marriages, im sure that those that DO get married will find out in the afterlife whether or not God finds it an abhorration. It should be their choice to take the 'risk', or whatever you like to call it. Note: THEIR choice to get married, not the Governments trying to secure the next election, and not their heterosexual neighbours that have a bee in their bonnet and are resistant to change.

[Dave_the_quack]

To all,

Just PM'ed a mod about my post (yes, thats right, I sorta reported my own post heh), and asked if my previous post was against the rules of this forum. After his response, I believe that it probably was, so I say sorry now to all if my bringing up religion (ie, my use of the word God) offended anyone. Having said that, please, to all mods and fellow IWers, do not lock this thread.

It was not my intent to flamebait or hurt anyones feelings (I'm pretty sure I didn't, but can't speak for all) but in order to address marriage I didn't think I could make my views make sense without the word 'God'. My bad.

Just ignore it guys and gals... but, by all means, please respond to the rest of the post [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Morgan_Corbesant]

Ok, I can see your point. The problem is that if its allowed, then what is next? Some what polygamy (sp) some want beastiality, etc. If we budge on one topic, we will have to budge on them all. Like I said, I have nothing against gays, and I have gay friends. I don't think its trendy in Australia to be gay, but it definately is here. There are alot of trends in America that I hope never reach Australia. I'm so tired of things here that I am considering moving to either A) Canada, B) Australia, or C) Eastern Europe somewhere. I've been to Brisbane and LOVED it, so Australia is probably my choice.

Sorry about the confusion, I didn't mean that ALL gays choose to be, but It seems like alot do. I get too excited when I type trying to make points and sometimes just type without thought, heh.

[Larry_OHF]

To Dave's and Morgan's apologies about bringing up the religious points of this debate, I ask only that it not happen again.

Guys, it would be very easy to start a tangent about the religious aspects of this topic, both for and against, but we want to see the issue discussed using the law of the land and civil rights of people...and not what a church thinks.

Thanks for catching yourselves and trying to revert back to the proper manner of debate that has been outlined. There's no reason to lock the thread if it can run "straight" from here. [img]smile.gif[/img]