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Old 05-28-2003, 03:17 PM   #51
Drake
Baaz Draconian
 

Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: ?
Age: 35
Posts: 729
Quote:
Originally posted by Faceman:
I am not saying that words like sword (or guns) kill people.
People kill people. I agree with that. But a sword is a dangerous tool so if someone cannot handle it right he should stay away from it. And if a forum or a society discovers that (s)words are in general misused to cause a significant number of members pain they should start thinking about banning them.

I not talking about people being offended by insults like groovy dude (or other more evil remarks ).
I am talking about words that have a negative history that live to up until now.
If someone for example has parents/grandparents who were killed/tortured in WWII they may NOT have a choice of how to react.

Imagine:

Peter's grandfather was freed from a concentration camp in the last weeks of war where he had been staying for 3 years before that. Every time someone mentions terms who remind him of that time he breaks down in tears. Peter - as most people - likes/loves his grandpa. Therefore when he sees him suffer he suffers himself.
Someday Peter visits a public place/forum and gets into an argument with someone who ultimately calls him a fascist/nazi.
Now Peter accused (in what manner whatsoever) of being one of these guys who causes his grandpa pain to an extent that Peter can still feel it when his grandpa just tells is understandably upset. He has not so much as a choice to say "I'll just take it cool, what does he know anyway."

Words like fascist, nazi, commie, ... for the culprits
or ■■■■■■, paki, Jud, ... for the victims
are strung to stories so full of grievance that it takes some people superhuman strenght to cope with them. So why don't freeze these words in your active vocabulary. It's not a big deal for you, but it might be a big deal for the people who can't cope.
*nods head in agreement*
the last bit has a lot of wisdom...the drake has a tendancy to forget that every one has there own way of handling things...what might be hard for him can be easy for someone else and the opposite is true too.
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Old 05-28-2003, 05:40 PM   #52
Azred
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Join Date: March 13, 2001
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Age: 48
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grojlach:
So now according to you those who think using "fascist" as an insult is inappropriate are the ones who are childish? How about the ones using it in the first place, then?

No, I didn't say that. The one using an insult is immature, but someone who lets an insult hurt them is also immature.
Quote:
Originally posted by Faceman:
I not talking about people being offended by insults like groovy dude (or other more evil remarks ).
I am talking about words that have a negative history that live to up until now.

There is no better way to deflate the power of "negative history" associated with a word than to reduce that word to a trite nothing. Words are just words; only actions make any difference.

If someone for example has parents/grandparents who were killed/tortured in WWII they may NOT have a choice of how to react.

That is nonsense! I will never accept this line of thinking, that someone has "no choice" about how to react! That simply gives them an excuse to whine when someone steps on their overly sensitive toes over nothing. I don't go around insulting others, but neither will I "walk on eggshells" so as to avoid accidentally upsetting someone--I speak my mind.
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Old 05-28-2003, 09:07 PM   #53
Faceman
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Join Date: February 18, 2002
Location: Vienna
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To say they have NO choice is probably inaccurate. Everybody has a choice at any point of his life. But in some situations these choices are influenced by your emotions to an extent where you can't control them at the moment and just have to cool off.
I am also very aware that free speech is of prime importance and that
self-censorship is a very dangerous thing. In fact most dictatorships rely/relied on self-censoring as it gives the people an illusion of free speech if writers/politicians/artists/... cease to express their opinion because they fear instead of expressing their opinion and get executed.

What I'm saying is that if you use this words in public you might accidentally hurt someone. Although wounds heal and you may not do everlasting damage but you still hurt someone. And people have very little possibility to negate that they have been hurt (although they can later on make the choice to decide that it was not that bad anyway).
So in this very moment you have caused another human being *avoidable* pain (Regardless of what comes afterwards).
Why would you wanna do that?

Which brings us to your first point. I totally agree that they are just words/swords (beginning to like that one ) and can become dull over time if they are used often enough. But if you try to blunt a sword or empty a gun to make it safe do it in a secure place.
i.e. use these words in conversations with your friends or in conversations with people you like to get to know better and make it very obvious that you don't mean any harm. Do NOT use them carelessly in conversations with people you don't know and won't get to know better as you will have no chance to explain by words or actions that you are of no ill will and that they are just words. You will only do (hopefully temporary) damage.
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Old 05-29-2003, 07:29 AM   #54
Shaide
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Join Date: November 5, 2002
Location: Cordoba(andalusia)(spain)(europe)(the world)(the system solar)(the universe)
Age: 39
Posts: 91
¬_¬! The people gave their opinion, I think they dont want to hurt anybody.
But the fascist hurt a lot of people in the past (in my country, in the Civil War in 1936, Hitler & Mussolini helped to Franco, they proved their arms with the republican people or the people who love the democracia, or democracian (I dont know spell it)). Sorry I know what can you think: "You always say the same"... I know, but the fascist killed a lot of people in the south of Spain, meanwhile they stolen us to gave it to the north people, in cities like Madrid or Barcelona.

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Old 05-29-2003, 10:41 AM   #55
Attalus
Symbol of Bane
 

Join Date: November 26, 2001
Location: Texas
Age: 70
Posts: 8,167
That would be the Falange, correct? Well, they were certainly no lilies, but their side certainly didn't have any monopoly on atrocities in the Spanish Civil War, especially the Anarchists (F.A.L.N.? Sorry, it's been several years) up around Barcelona. They used to flay people, and not just Nationalists. My study of the Spanish Civil War produce a sort of "Plague on both their houses" syndrome.
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Old 05-31-2003, 09:43 AM   #56
Ziroc
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Closing.....
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