Visit the Ironworks Gaming Website Email the Webmaster Graphics Library Rules and Regulations Help Support Ironworks Forum with a Donation to Keep us Online - We rely totally on Donations from members Donation goal Meter

Ironworks Gaming Radio

Ironworks Gaming Forum

Go Back   Ironworks Gaming Forum > Ironworks Gaming Forums > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-09-2003, 10:28 PM   #1
Reeka
Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice
 

Join Date: March 2, 2001
Location: Birmingham, Alabama, USA
Age: 70
Posts: 3,255
Today in Alabama in a town about an hour's drive from me a man was arrested for felony homocide. Early this morning he was attempting to break into an elderly couples home in the nude. The 70-something man heard a noise and went to investigate. Upon opening the door, he saw this young man in his 20's standing on his deck in the nude. His wife in the house was calling the police. The elderly gentleman collasped. Upon arrival, the police arrested the young nude and called paramedics and a ambulance for the elderly man. He died moments later at the hospital from a heart attack.

The district attorney has charged the young man with "felony homocide"---the death of someone during the commission of a felony.
__________________
<b>Order of the Holy Flame</b><br /><i>Member of Clan HADB</i><br /><b>Laughing Hyena</b><br /><i>Clan Liaison, IW Peace Keeping Force</i><br /><i>[url]\"http://www.the-silver-river.com/Forum/index.php?board=29\" target=\"_blank\">The Silver River VoiceChat!</a><br />Last Saturday of every month. <br />See the forum link for scheduling!<br /><b> </b><br /></i><br /><b>Admin and Co-Owner of [url]\"http://www.the-silver-river.com\" target=\"_blank\">The Silver River</a></b><br />[url]\"http://www.the-silver-river.com\" target=\"_blank\"></a>
Reeka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2003, 11:04 PM   #2
Azred
Drow Priestess
 

Join Date: March 13, 2001
Location: a hidden sanctorum high above the metroplex
Age: 54
Posts: 4,037
Question Mark

That is a bit of a stretch. It will be awfully hard for the prosecution to prove that the young man's attempt at breaking in actually caused the heart attack; it could have been ready to happen for weeks. Nevertheless, it is a tragedy for the elderly couple.
__________________
Everything may be explained by a conspiracy theory. All conspiracy theories are true.

No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.
Azred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2003, 11:10 PM   #3
True_Moose
Gold Dragon
 

Join Date: June 18, 2002
Location: Wolfville, NS / Calgary, AB
Age: 36
Posts: 2,563
Umm...strange is how I can best describe. I would really like to see them put the murder weapon in at trial. "The prosecution would like to present exhibit 83" *sound of fly being undone*

Seriously, felony murder involves either intent or ridiculous indifference to human life. I really doubt that this qualifies as either.
__________________
[img]\"http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f13/true_moose/Siggy.jpg\" alt=\" - \" />
True_Moose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2003, 11:43 PM   #4
Reeka
Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice
 

Join Date: March 2, 2001
Location: Birmingham, Alabama, USA
Age: 70
Posts: 3,255
Well, they had the DA on TV, and he said that since the man died during the commission of a felony (breaking into a house) it is FELONY murder. There are degrees of murder. I heard tonight that the college student is in jail with $100,000 bond set.
__________________
<b>Order of the Holy Flame</b><br /><i>Member of Clan HADB</i><br /><b>Laughing Hyena</b><br /><i>Clan Liaison, IW Peace Keeping Force</i><br /><i>[url]\"http://www.the-silver-river.com/Forum/index.php?board=29\" target=\"_blank\">The Silver River VoiceChat!</a><br />Last Saturday of every month. <br />See the forum link for scheduling!<br /><b> </b><br /></i><br /><b>Admin and Co-Owner of [url]\"http://www.the-silver-river.com\" target=\"_blank\">The Silver River</a></b><br />[url]\"http://www.the-silver-river.com\" target=\"_blank\"></a>
Reeka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2003, 12:08 AM   #5
True_Moose
Gold Dragon
 

Join Date: June 18, 2002
Location: Wolfville, NS / Calgary, AB
Age: 36
Posts: 2,563
That's still a stretch. DAs can talk up a storm...we've seen it before, and we'll see it again. What I want to see is some judge who'll give this guy life or death in prison because an old guy died after seeing the family jewels.
__________________
[img]\"http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f13/true_moose/Siggy.jpg\" alt=\" - \" />
True_Moose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2003, 01:51 AM   #6
Faceman
Hathor
 

Join Date: February 18, 2002
Location: Vienna
Age: 42
Posts: 2,248
We discussed something similar in the topic about the pilot who made a bomb joke and got arrested IIRC. When it came to if he should be responsible for late flights, commercial loss, etc. TL argued that it was all about foreseeability and indirect effects of the crime. Although here the old man is a direct victim (if you can prove that the heart attack was a consequence of the young man's appearance) the young man had no intent (at least I hope so [img]smile.gif[/img] ) and could not foresee (especially because he was probably not in a sound state of mind) that he would encounter an elderly couple AND give them a heart attack. But I wait to hear from Timber about that.
My personal opinion: It's tragic and it shows where immature behaviour can lead (was he drunk? or in a mental state - if latter my following sentence of course does not apply). However it is tragic no more no less.
According to the DA it is a felony murder as it was committed during a felony. Still it has to be a murderous act to qualify as murder. Therefore if it is a murderous act to get someone with a heart condition too excited giving him a heart-attack the possibilities for charges would soar. If someone died from a heart condition after a quarrel with his wife you could charge her with (involuntary) manslaughter. If she said "you gonna regret this" during the conversation she may be even going down for Murder One.
__________________
\"I am forever spellbound by the frailty of life\"<br /><br /> Faceman
Faceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2003, 03:06 AM   #7
Skunk
Banned User
 

Join Date: September 3, 2001
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Age: 62
Posts: 1,463
Quote:
---Faceman
If someone died from a heart condition after a quarrel with his wife you could charge her with (involuntary) manslaughter.
Yes but the last I heard, arguing was not a crime (unless it uses physical violence). I think that the man *should* be charged with manslaughter. There have been a number of incidents in the UK over the past few years where this has been the case (the last was when a man collapsed with a heart-attack while chasing a thief who had broken into his garage).

The fact of the matter is, if the prospective burglar had not attempted to break in, that old man would probably be still alive.

[ 09-10-2003, 03:10 AM: Message edited by: Skunk ]
Skunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2003, 06:28 AM   #8
Faceman
Hathor
 

Join Date: February 18, 2002
Location: Vienna
Age: 42
Posts: 2,248
Quote:
Originally posted by Skunk:
Yes but the last I heard, arguing was not a crime.
That's why she should be charged with involuntary manslaughter instead of felony murder.
Marking it as murder does not automatically derive from the felony ti is just boosted through it.

Let's assume the guy was not drunk and not naked but a common burglar. Let's also assume the house belonged to a healthy young couple.
Situation:
He breaks in. The husband hears him and wants to take a look downstairs. In the darkness he trips and falls down the stairs breaking his neck.
Now he would still be alive if it wasn't for that burglar but the burglar did not kill him and therefore probably shouldn't be charged for murder.
__________________
\"I am forever spellbound by the frailty of life\"<br /><br /> Faceman
Faceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2003, 07:53 AM   #9
Skunk
Banned User
 

Join Date: September 3, 2001
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Age: 62
Posts: 1,463
Quote:
Originally posted by Faceman:
quote:
Originally posted by Skunk:
Yes but the last I heard, arguing was not a crime.
That's why she should be charged with involuntary manslaughter instead of felony murder.
Marking it as murder does not automatically derive from the felony ti is just boosted through it.

Let's assume the guy was not drunk and not naked but a common burglar. Let's also assume the house belonged to a healthy young couple.
Situation:
He breaks in. The husband hears him and wants to take a look downstairs. In the darkness he trips and falls down the stairs breaking his neck.
Now he would still be alive if it wasn't for that burglar but the burglar did not kill him and therefore probably shouldn't be charged for murder.
[/QUOTE]Well, that's why I said manslaughter - the death should certainly part of the charges - but 'Murder One' is a bit strong...So we agree with eachother.
Skunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2003, 10:38 AM   #10
Timber Loftis
40th Level Warrior
 

Join Date: July 11, 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 11,916
Quote:
Felony Murder Doctrine

n. a rule of criminal statutes that any death which occurs during the commission of a felony is first degree murder, and all participants in that felony or attempted felony can be charged with and found guilty of murder. A typical example is a robbery involving more than one criminal, in which one of them shoots, beats to death or runs over a store clerk, killing the clerk. Even if the death were accidental, all of the participants can be found guilty of felony murder, including those who did no harm, had no gun, and/or did not intend to hurt anyone. In a bizarre situation, if one of the holdup men or women is killed, his/her fellow robbers can be charged with murder.
Someone mentioned the airport bomb and foreseeability. This isn't the same. The legislature in (I think) all states have decided that if you commit a felony, you are on the hook for any deaths resulting during that felony. The legislature has dictated that the commission of a felony is so dangerous that any deaths ensuing from it are per se foreseeable.

Also, there is no mens rea component to the felony murder rule, so your intent or "guilty mind" is not a question. In fact, the felony murder rule is often argued to be unfair. It is the single instance in the law where you can skip manslaughter, skip murder 2, and go straight to murder 1, a capital offense, and get the death penalty without ever having premeditated or intended to harm anyone.

In fact, if you're holding up a liquor store with your buddy, and HE shoots the clerk, you can get (and some have gotten) the murder 1 death penalty. In fact, if the store clerk shoots your cohort you are liable for THAT killing (ANY killing during your commission of a crime) and can get the death penalty. Get this one: you're driving back from a Phish show with your friends, you've got a hit of acid in your wallet (a felony) and you wreck and kill one of those friends. I've never seen this instance, but felony murder might apply.

DA's argue felony murder because it's so much easier to prove than murder. It's very easy: (1) did you commit a felony? (2) did someone die? If yes and yes, then go straight to the chamber, do not pass go.

Here's a site arguing for change of the felony murder rule:
http://www.ncfelonymurder.org/home.html
__________________
Timber Loftis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I feel naked sageridder General Discussion 5 12-23-2006 07:27 PM
NY: Parakeet Killer Charged with Felony Timber Loftis General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005) 39 03-25-2003 11:35 AM
Phil Spectre Arrested For Murder.. Charlie General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005) 9 02-04-2003 08:32 AM
The Naked Gun Series Sir Goulum Entertainment (Movies, TV Shows and Books/Comics) 14 12-27-2002 02:02 PM
Naked - Carrotocopia! Yorick General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005) 15 10-17-2002 10:25 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2024 Ironworks Gaming & ©2024 The Great Escape Studios TM - All Rights Reserved