Yes, I need more help.

Lioness · 08-16-2001, 05:05 PM

Ok, I am a lvl 9 Kensai, and have discovered that Kensai's are less than perfect, not just the armor prob, that is solvable, but because, when I am casting area spells w/ my mage, like web and cloudkill, she is useless, except as backup. So I am debating starting over with my fighter/mage from BG1, or dualing immediatley(with a nw game) to a mage., or sticking it out, cause she is a awesome tank.

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Sword Saint of the HADB Clan
Waitress and entertainer at Cloudy's Cafe, "The best food this side of Kormyr."
Little Angel of Ironworks

Terence The Unspecial · 08-16-2001, 05:14 PM

ya gots ta dance with the one what brung ya. stick with the kensai. you won't regret it.

Sigmar · 08-16-2001, 05:17 PM

Terence is right, you made it this far with your Kensai you might as well finish it. Besides each class has their downsides, you should keep going with your kensai.

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"The time to start running is around about the "e" in "Hey you!"
Sigmar, member of clan HADB

trux · 08-16-2001, 05:19 PM

if you're thinking of dualing your character you should go from a kensai to something else (most would agree mage) - you won't regret it.

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a bunch of long hairs.
trux

Lioness · 08-16-2001, 05:19 PM

Thanx, I do like her. Galadrial(me) and Minsc are like a hack 'n' slash combo, they're awesome with a bunch of potions.

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Sword Saint of the HADB Clan
Waitress and entertainer at Cloudy's Cafe, "The best food this side of Kormyr."
Little Angel of Ironworks

Tuor · 08-16-2001, 06:20 PM

Stick with the Kensai but don't use her as your 'main' fighter. Her armour class will not be as good as your tank so she should not be steaming into fights first.

She should be selecting a single opponent and hammering him quickly before moving on-not get bogged down slugging it out with three nutcases in full plate because you will lose.

You should give her two slots in single weapon proficiency so her AC is reduced by two which helps a bit.

Really she should be joining a fight after your opponents have been engaged by your tank so she does not get attacked by more than one opponent.

If that does happen your dex adjustment to your AC is shared between the opponents facing you so if you have a -4 AC adjustment on dex and you are fighting two opponents your AC is 2 higher than you would expect.

It gets even worse if you get attacked from behind because you get NO dex bonus at all!! Which can be a killer for a kensai especialy at low level.

Early on to reduce the impact of no armour give all the rings, amulets and cloaks you can to the kensai to reduce her AC but accept you probably won't get it below about -2 without severe trouble because you can't wear bracers.

In terms of dual classing I suggest you do it at a level divisible by three so you don't waste your +1 damage and to hit bonus or the extra proficiency you get every three levels.

A human dual class kensai/mage is an awesome fighting machine which can use magical armour to send his AC through the floor and allow you to tank as well as gaining you valuable xp through learning spells.

I my experience the best time to dual class is usually at ninth level because you can grand master in a weapon and put two proficiencies into single weapon style.

You also get your exceptional strength bonus (if str is 18) and +3 to hit and damage when your new class reaches level 10.

In addition the mage you become can max out in levels and cast 8th level spells so you get the best of both worlds.

Having said that if you are going to play ToB as well or if you already have one mage in your party it may be worth dualling at a later level 12th or 15th (but ONLY at 15th if you plan to do ToB) so the first mage is already quite powerful and can fill the void left by your kensai with strong summoned creatures or elementals until you get your fighter skills back.

You have to be careful because dual classingcan substantially unbalance your party if you are not careful and your remaining fighters may struggle.

If you do dual class later it is extremely important you do all the sub quests before entering chapter 4 or you may not exceed your kensai level with your mage ones.

Istaron · 08-16-2001, 06:53 PM

You could always try monk.

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We call him Bobby Corwen

deathknight · 08-16-2001, 07:43 PM

Tour had some good points on the kensai mage. I play one currently and love him. One area I would have to disagree on though is single weapon style. With all of the protective spells that you can cast (the list is immense but you got stoneskin,ghost armor,blur tensors transformation just to name a few) I think the need for those ac points is not that great. I suggest wielding 2 weapons for more hack and slash. also there are some real nice weapons you can throw in your off hand for their abilities. for instance if you go katana you can buy Dak'kon's Zerth Blade.This weapon is made for fighter mages and gives +1 ac (so now we recovered 1 ac from not going single weapon style) and you memorize and additional level 1,2,3,4 spell when it is wielded. There are tons of other cool swords I like to swap into my off hand as well for their abilities based on the situation (I got with celestial fury in my main hand most of the time).
Definatly dual on a level divisible by 3. I did it at 12 and I love my stats. You may get a bit anxious at around level 11 or 12 as a mage since it does take a long time to get to level 13 as a mage. I am interested in trying a kensai druid next. I am not sure how effective that may be but I think it would be cool (actually druids cast alot of stuff before and after fights so it seems to me it would work rather nice).

Hayashi · 08-17-2001, 12:41 AM

Lioness
Be aware that if you dual-class (to mage, say) you'll lose all kensai abilities until your mage level is one better than the kensai. So if you d/c at lvl 9 kensai, you only get your kensai abilities back when your mage reaches lvl 10. So if you intend to do d/c it's best to do it early.

Whether the kensai is effective depends on the make-up of the party and developing a playing style that takes advantages of your party members' strengths while minimising their weaknesses with magical items or by strategy. From my experience the kensai can be an effective tank, the only limitation being armour and missile weapons (a kensai can't use both).

My kensai is level 20 (or 21) right now, and I've just about wrapped up Chapter 6. (Obviously I have ToB installed or I would have peaked at level 19.) The other party members are:

Keldorn - level 18, and the other main tank in the party. With boots of speed
and the Carsomyr, plus his true sight & dispel magic abilities, he is THE most invaluable NPC.

Minsc - level 18. Started out as a tank, but now I find he's filling on a more "support fire" role (he has a longbow Heartseeker +3 and Azuredge). However he can tank if needed.

Jaheira - level 14/14 fighter/druid. For druid spells, summonings and tanking if required (her AC is -11)

Imoen - level 7/14 thief/mage. Thief and scout. Plus mage of course.

Aerie - level 14/14 cleric/mage.

The kensai's shortcomings can be overcome by items such as amulets, cloaks and rings which can enhance AC. Having high stats at chracter creation help immensely - I started out with 18/77 in Str, 18 Dex, 18 Con, 18 Int (was thinking of d/c him to mage, prob. too late in the game now), 10 Wis, 8 Cha. Stocking up on relevant potions (eg potion of defence, of heroism, etc) also help to lower his AC.

Hope this helps.
Also, decide what weapons you want your kensai to specialise in and concentrate in putting points into that weapon. My kensai has 3 points in dual wield, 4 in katana, and 2 in long sword as these are the weapons and styles he normally uses.

He has chalked up about 50% of all the kills of the party. He is a mean killing machine and usually (for the average encounter anyway) is the solo tank while everyone else uses missile weapons or casts spells.

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"Butt-kicking for goodness!" - Minsc
"Cities always teem with evil and decay. Let's give it a good shake and SEE WHAT FALLS OUT!!" - Minsc

DonkeyWan · 08-17-2001, 05:31 AM

My two cents,

Fighters are dull to play with, their is too much repetition, for a more interesting roleplaying adventure try a thief or a mage (I don't like dual or multiclassing too much, but I have to admit mage/thiefs are a lot of fun.

08-16-2001, 05:05 PM	#1
Lioness Jack Burton Join Date: June 3, 2001 Location: Among the Stars Age: 36 Posts: 5,837	Ok, I am a lvl 9 Kensai, and have discovered that Kensai's are less than perfect, not just the armor prob, that is solvable, but because, when I am casting area spells w/ my mage, like web and cloudkill, she is useless, except as backup. So I am debating starting over with my fighter/mage from BG1, or dualing immediatley(with a nw game) to a mage., or sticking it out, cause she is a awesome tank. ------------------ Sword Saint of the HADB Clan Waitress and entertainer at Cloudy's Cafe, "The best food this side of Kormyr." Little Angel of Ironworks

08-16-2001, 05:14 PM	#2
Terence The Unspecial Dungeon Master Join Date: July 24, 2001 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 80	ya gots ta dance with the one what brung ya. stick with the kensai. you won't regret it.

08-16-2001, 05:17 PM	#3
Sigmar Unicorn Join Date: May 17, 2001 Location: N/a Posts: 4,222	Terence is right, you made it this far with your Kensai you might as well finish it. Besides each class has their downsides, you should keep going with your kensai. ------------------ "The time to start running is around about the "e" in "Hey you!" Sigmar, member of clan HADB

08-16-2001, 05:19 PM	#4
trux Avatar Join Date: May 19, 2001 Location: Darkside of the Moon Posts: 578	if you're thinking of dualing your character you should go from a kensai to something else (most would agree mage) - you won't regret it. ------------------ a bunch of long hairs. trux

08-16-2001, 06:20 PM	#6
Tuor Elminster Join Date: June 17, 2001 Location: england Posts: 409	Stick with the Kensai but don't use her as your 'main' fighter. Her armour class will not be as good as your tank so she should not be steaming into fights first. She should be selecting a single opponent and hammering him quickly before moving on-not get bogged down slugging it out with three nutcases in full plate because you will lose. You should give her two slots in single weapon proficiency so her AC is reduced by two which helps a bit. Really she should be joining a fight after your opponents have been engaged by your tank so she does not get attacked by more than one opponent. If that does happen your dex adjustment to your AC is shared between the opponents facing you so if you have a -4 AC adjustment on dex and you are fighting two opponents your AC is 2 higher than you would expect. It gets even worse if you get attacked from behind because you get NO dex bonus at all!! Which can be a killer for a kensai especialy at low level. Early on to reduce the impact of no armour give all the rings, amulets and cloaks you can to the kensai to reduce her AC but accept you probably won't get it below about -2 without severe trouble because you can't wear bracers. In terms of dual classing I suggest you do it at a level divisible by three so you don't waste your +1 damage and to hit bonus or the extra proficiency you get every three levels. A human dual class kensai/mage is an awesome fighting machine which can use magical armour to send his AC through the floor and allow you to tank as well as gaining you valuable xp through learning spells. I my experience the best time to dual class is usually at ninth level because you can grand master in a weapon and put two proficiencies into single weapon style. You also get your exceptional strength bonus (if str is 18) and +3 to hit and damage when your new class reaches level 10. In addition the mage you become can max out in levels and cast 8th level spells so you get the best of both worlds. Having said that if you are going to play ToB as well or if you already have one mage in your party it may be worth dualling at a later level 12th or 15th (but ONLY at 15th if you plan to do ToB) so the first mage is already quite powerful and can fill the void left by your kensai with strong summoned creatures or elementals until you get your fighter skills back. You have to be careful because dual classingcan substantially unbalance your party if you are not careful and your remaining fighters may struggle. If you do dual class later it is extremely important you do all the sub quests before entering chapter 4 or you may not exceed your kensai level with your mage ones.

08-16-2001, 06:53 PM	#7
Istaron Banned User Join Date: June 16, 2001 Location: Uppland Posts: 711	You could always try monk. ------------------ We call him Bobby Corwen

08-16-2001, 07:43 PM	#8
deathknight Drow Warrior Join Date: July 13, 2001 Location: Niles,Il USA Posts: 298	Tour had some good points on the kensai mage. I play one currently and love him. One area I would have to disagree on though is single weapon style. With all of the protective spells that you can cast (the list is immense but you got stoneskin,ghost armor,blur tensors transformation just to name a few) I think the need for those ac points is not that great. I suggest wielding 2 weapons for more hack and slash. also there are some real nice weapons you can throw in your off hand for their abilities. for instance if you go katana you can buy Dak'kon's Zerth Blade.This weapon is made for fighter mages and gives +1 ac (so now we recovered 1 ac from not going single weapon style) and you memorize and additional level 1,2,3,4 spell when it is wielded. There are tons of other cool swords I like to swap into my off hand as well for their abilities based on the situation (I got with celestial fury in my main hand most of the time). Definatly dual on a level divisible by 3. I did it at 12 and I love my stats. You may get a bit anxious at around level 11 or 12 as a mage since it does take a long time to get to level 13 as a mage. I am interested in trying a kensai druid next. I am not sure how effective that may be but I think it would be cool (actually druids cast alot of stuff before and after fights so it seems to me it would work rather nice).

08-17-2001, 12:41 AM	#9
Hayashi Silver Dragon Join Date: March 25, 2001 Location: The Lion City Age: 62 Posts: 1,699	Lioness Be aware that if you dual-class (to mage, say) you'll lose all kensai abilities until your mage level is one better than the kensai. So if you d/c at lvl 9 kensai, you only get your kensai abilities back when your mage reaches lvl 10. So if you intend to do d/c it's best to do it early. Whether the kensai is effective depends on the make-up of the party and developing a playing style that takes advantages of your party members' strengths while minimising their weaknesses with magical items or by strategy. From my experience the kensai can be an effective tank, the only limitation being armour and missile weapons (a kensai can't use both). My kensai is level 20 (or 21) right now, and I've just about wrapped up Chapter 6. (Obviously I have ToB installed or I would have peaked at level 19.) The other party members are: Keldorn - level 18, and the other main tank in the party. With boots of speed and the Carsomyr, plus his true sight & dispel magic abilities, he is THE most invaluable NPC. Minsc - level 18. Started out as a tank, but now I find he's filling on a more "support fire" role (he has a longbow Heartseeker +3 and Azuredge). However he can tank if needed. Jaheira - level 14/14 fighter/druid. For druid spells, summonings and tanking if required (her AC is -11) Imoen - level 7/14 thief/mage. Thief and scout. Plus mage of course. Aerie - level 14/14 cleric/mage. The kensai's shortcomings can be overcome by items such as amulets, cloaks and rings which can enhance AC. Having high stats at chracter creation help immensely - I started out with 18/77 in Str, 18 Dex, 18 Con, 18 Int (was thinking of d/c him to mage, prob. too late in the game now), 10 Wis, 8 Cha. Stocking up on relevant potions (eg potion of defence, of heroism, etc) also help to lower his AC. Hope this helps. Also, decide what weapons you want your kensai to specialise in and concentrate in putting points into that weapon. My kensai has 3 points in dual wield, 4 in katana, and 2 in long sword as these are the weapons and styles he normally uses. He has chalked up about 50% of all the kills of the party. He is a mean killing machine and usually (for the average encounter anyway) is the solo tank while everyone else uses missile weapons or casts spells. ------------------ "Butt-kicking for goodness!" - Minsc "Cities always teem with evil and decay. Let's give it a good shake and SEE WHAT FALLS OUT!!" - Minsc

08-17-2001, 05:31 AM	#10
DonkeyWan Drow Warrior Join Date: May 4, 2001 Location: Ireland Posts: 299	My two cents, Fighters are dull to play with, their is too much repetition, for a more interesting roleplaying adventure try a thief or a mage (I don't like dual or multiclassing too much, but I have to admit mage/thiefs are a lot of fun.

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