Parts of the Old Testament proven true

[esquire]

Originally posted by Vaskez: quote: Originally posted by esquire: Don't have to worry about supernatural forces plotting against me, or any other mystical powers operating beyond my control. Nope! Its just me vs. entropy, wouldn't have it any other way.

Ah the good old ostrich head in the sand tactic. Hide and hope it will go away. What IS Supernatural. It is only something that humans either cannot yet understand and cannot explain with current science so it is said to be "supernatural" or it is something that we will never understand. It's slightly naive to believe that we can/will understand everything in the universe. It's also arrogant. The only logical explanation is that something "supernatural" governed the creation of nature. Who do you think created entropy? And who created the laws of science that we are discovering? The atoms just popped into existance one day and started off the process that resulted in gasses compressing into planets and stars and the molecules rearranging to form life which then evolved into intelligent beings capable of learning? I find it an almost infinite stretch of the imagination. There must be some eternal intelligent force out there, the only logical explanation IMO. [/QUOTE]Well I just don't see the need to make assumptions about anything. If I don't understand something, well thats fine. However I don't automattically assume that some divine force must be at work just because I may not understand what is happening. I like how Arthur C. Clark puts it,

"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong."

Clarke's second law states that:

"The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible."

Clarke's third law states that:

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Thus, it isn't arrogent at all to think we can understand everything in the universe. It will just take a really really really long time If people thought that some things were not understandable, well we wouldn't have nifty things like electricity, computers, quantum mechanics ect...

[ 09-24-2003, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: esquire ]

[Firestormalpha]

While I myself do not believe in evolution, I do believe that evolution is not possible at all if there is no governing force causing it to happen. Genetic drift has far too many variables to allow evolution to occur in an orderly fashion otherwise.

[Bozos of Bones]

...don't believe in evolution? explain...

[Vaskez]

Originally posted by esquire: quote: Originally posted by Vaskez: quote: Originally posted by esquire: Don't have to worry about supernatural forces plotting against me, or any other mystical powers operating beyond my control. Nope! Its just me vs. entropy, wouldn't have it any other way.

Ah the good old ostrich head in the sand tactic. Hide and hope it will go away. What IS Supernatural. It is only something that humans either cannot yet understand and cannot explain with current science so it is said to be "supernatural" or it is something that we will never understand. It's slightly naive to believe that we can/will understand everything in the universe. It's also arrogant. The only logical explanation is that something "supernatural" governed the creation of nature. Who do you think created entropy? And who created the laws of science that we are discovering? The atoms just popped into existance one day and started off the process that resulted in gasses compressing into planets and stars and the molecules rearranging to form life which then evolved into intelligent beings capable of learning? I find it an almost infinite stretch of the imagination. There must be some eternal intelligent force out there, the only logical explanation IMO. [/QUOTE]Well I just don't see the need to make assumptions about anything. If I don't understand something, well thats fine. However I don't automattically assume that some divine force must be at work just because I may not understand what is happening. I like how Arthur C. Clark puts it,

"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong."

Clarke's second law states that:

"The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible."

Clarke's third law states that:

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Thus, it isn't arrogent at all to think we can understand everything in the universe. It will just take a really really really long time If people thought that some things were not understandable, well we wouldn't have nifty things like electricity, computers, quantum mechanics ect... [/QUOTE]LOL well you've nicely gone and simplified everything. Of course yes I believe there is a God because I can't explain everything in the universe (sarcastic). I know it's difficult to argue from more than one angle at once but it's a whole complicated structure of things that reinforces this belief, the above is just one of the many. And before you ask what are the others...they've all been mentioned either in this thread or previous threads on similar topics. The truth is there is just so much evidence for it and so hard to believe that the world created itself that I find myself not having a choice in what I believe, it just seems so bloody obvious

[ 09-24-2003, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: Vaskez ]

[esquire]

Originally posted by Firestormalpha: While I myself do not believe in evolution, I do believe that evolution is not possible at all if there is no governing force causing it to happen. Genetic drift has far too many variables to allow evolution to occur in an orderly fashion otherwise.

Well, genetic drift is an important mechanism for evolution, along side natural selection. It is preciecly those random events that allows genetic drift to happen.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by johnny: Just out of curiosity.... how does the Koran explain how the first humans got here ? I take it they don't have the version of Adam and Eve ?

Sorry Johnny.

Here are some mentions of Adam in the Qu'ran. There are 25 mentions of him in all, compared with 29 mentions of Jesus 136 of Moses and 4 of Muhammad.
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[3.59] Surely the likeness of Isa (Jesus) is with Allah as the likeness of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, Be, and he was.

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[Sura 2:31-39] He taught Adam all the names then presented them to the angels, saying, "Give me the names of these, if you are right."

They said, "Be You glorified, we have no knowledge, except that which You have taught us. You are the Omniscient, Most Wise."

He said, "O Adam, tell them their names." When he told them their names, He said, "Did I not tell you that I know the secrets of the heavens and the earth? I know what you declare, and what you conceal."

When we said to the angels, "Fall prostrate before Adam," they fell prostrate, except Satan; he refused, was too arrogant, and a disbeliever.

We said, "O Adam, live with your wife in Paradise, and eat therefrom generously, as you please, but do not approach this tree, lest you sin."

But the devil duped them, and caused their eviction therefrom. We said, "Go down as enemies of one another. On Earth shall be your habitation and provision for awhile."

Then, Adam received from his Lord words, whereby He redeemed him. He is the Redeemer, Most Merciful.

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[20.115] And certainly We gave a commandment to Adam before, but he forgot; and We did not find in him any determination.
[20.116] And when We said to the angels: Make obeisance to Adam, they made obeisance, but Iblis (did it not); he refused.
[20.117] So We said: O Adam! This is an enemy to you and to your wife; therefore let him not drive you both forth from the garden so that you should be unhappy;
[20.120] But the Shaitan made an evil suggestion to him; he said: O Adam! Shall I guide you to the tree of immortality and a kingdom which decays not?
[20.121] Then they both ate of it, so their evil inclinations became manifest to them, and they both began to cover themselves with leaves of the garden, and Adam disobeyed his Lord, so his life became evil (to him).

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[LordKathen]

Just trolling through.................I have a headache.

[Iron_Ranger]

[quote]Originally posted by Yorick:

Originally posted by johnny: [qb] Here are some mentions of Adam in the Qu'ran. There are 25 mentions of him in all, compared with 29 mentions of Jesus 136 of Moses and 4 of Muhammad. -------------

Er, tell me if I mis reading your post here, but there are only four (!) mentions of Muhammad in the ENTIRe Koran?

[ 09-25-2003, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: Iron_Ranger ]

[Firestormalpha]

Iron ranger you forgot to put the / before the i in that last set of brackets.

More on topic, though, you did read correctly. And now that I think of it, it doesn't exactly make too much sense. Oh well, I've got a frosty from Wendy's waiting for me and I need to put some food in me. 1+1=?

[Seraph]

Just without considering all the inbreeding, do you have any idea how long it would take for two people to populate the earth?

In the grand scheme of things, not very long. With a resonable birth rate (the number of famlies doubling each generation) 700 years would be a reasonable estimate.