The Continuing Saga of the Pedophile Priests

[Charean]

Originally posted by Lanthir: you made par to fmy point. you don't read it in the news that much do you. Aslo other religons do things too is my point. However everyone jumps on the catholics. I agree what happen was bad. I also dissagree with other things the church does. My point is that when other thing shappen in other churchs it does not get the same kinda press. Asd for the anti catholic in your post the fact that you do not see it is the problem.

Everyday in the New York Times or the Washington Post there are articles on the Catholic Church and what the Priests are getting away with. I am sorry that you feel attacked because you are Catholic. But you are not the problem.

The Catholic Church has has Political power for many centuries. That has been their goal and they do well at it. The problem occurs when the priests are NOT citizens of the country they are working in. When they are ordained, they become citizens of Vatican City, which in turn gives them diplomatic immunity. This creates a situation that can be abused.

To give an example off topic: there was a diplomat in DC from Iran (I believe) and he had a habit several pages long of driving while drunk. He was caught numerous times but because of the diplomatic immunity, we couldn't press charges. Then one night, he killed a 17 year old in a car accident. Was he drunk? You bet. Did he get away with it? Yes.... but he was sent back home. Did he face charges there? Well..... not really.

The system of diplomatic immunity hurts us more than anything else. There are people who have literally gotten away with murder not to mention many other crimes as well. This is something that will not be fixed overnight if at all.

The reason you don't hear about Baptists or Protestants or Buddhists right now is because they don't have immunity and they haven't been pedophiles in the sheer numbers that we are seeing. (And this thread had to do with a specific story in the Times.)

Being Catholic does not give you guilt by association. You have a spiritual faith and that is good. Many don't have faith in anything. There are some wonderful priests out there, but they don't get press unless they do something bad. It is not a perfect system, but that is the way the press is.

There is a show called Sunday Morning that only shows good news and amazing things around us. It would probably affect our society as a whole if there was a LOT more of this sort of thing on the airwaves. Unfortunately for us, there is a demand for gore and sex and violence for the news. That is what gets ratings.

The Americans have been pulling away a little at a time from the Vatican. There are those who believe women should have more power in the Church. There are those who want birth control. There are those who want a more active role in the faith. There are those who think Priests should be able to marry. I have been watching this as well. I would love to see more women be ordained.

Every religion at one time or another goes through trials. Right now there are Christians being persecuted in Israel. Jews about 20 years ago were having thier temples burned or blown up in the DC area. Buddhists got a bad rap during the Gore campaign. This unfortunately, is the Catholics turn. They will come out okay eventually when they get it straightened out. Do not take it personally, because this isn't about YOU... it is about a system. The system needs to be fixed. And after the hue and cry, some things will change. And some things won't.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Lanthir: wow nice to know you are anti-catholic. Um I guess the fact that there are cases of babtist among other churchs where the ministers have abused children does not matter to you. That was my point. I tdoes seem when it is the catholic church they love to attack it. I am not defending the church or their actions. What does upset me is the type of response that was posted above Cerek. As for the fact I used Babtist that was just because of some incidents in my area wher the local ministers was convicted of abusing children. I am sure there are other religions that also have this problem.

Lanthir,

First of all, I'm not "anti-Catholic". I was merely trying to point out that a Baptist preacher most likely wouldn't have as much opportunity as a Catholic priest because of the differences between the two systems.

You ask why the press "attacks" the Catholic church, but never mention other denominatinos. You answered your own question at the end of your Post.

The Baptist preacher you knew of that was molesting kids was convicted of the crime. The Baptist church didn't come in, absolve him of guilt, and move him to another church. He went to trial and was found guilty. The Catholic church has used it's power to keep their priests immune from criminal prosecution. That's one reason it gets more press.

Finally, it's always a good idea to either "QUOTE" a Post you are responding to, or mention the members name up front. Since someone else may be Posting at the same time, your Response might end up several Posts away from the actual Post you're responding too. That seems to have happened here, because both RudeDawg and Chareon thought you were Responding to their Post, not mine.

I take no offense at your objection, although I do feel you misintepreted my Post. I admit that I wrote it rather hurriedly and didn't read over it to see "how it sounded" (which I try to do with ANY Post I make). I did go back and read over it after seeing your response. I still didn't see anything blatantly "anti-Catholic", but I agree that I probably could have worded it better.

[Lanthir]

Cerek, At leat you understand the point I was trying to make even if we dissagree on things. part fo the problem I ahd with the babtist preacher and why I used it as an example is the fact that in the news story all it did wsa refer to him as A rev yet made no mention of his dinomination. I ahd to cal lthe paper to findout and their response that they did not want to embarress the congrigation but puttin gthat infor amtion in the paper. Yet when Catholic prisit does something that is the first thing the say in the paper or on tv. As for the opportunities to abuse children beign more previlant in the catholic church I would draw your attention to the fact that most abuse cases are done by parents or relatives of children.
As for dipolmatic immunity that does not have effect in cases like this. The prists are subject to the laws of this country even though the vatican is a soverign nation. Perhaps you did not read that the one prist in Boston has already been sentenced to 75 years in prison and is awaiting more charges and a second has been arrested and is being brought back from California. I hardly call that evading the law or a slap on the writst as wwas mention early on by people. As for settlements with people that cannot be blamed al lon the church. the parents fo these children are also resposible if they choose to settle and not brign it to the attention of the athorities. This is no different than when I ahve attended rape classes and they ask us to plese alwasy report thign even though they know how tramatic it woudl be for us. they point out that these types of people tend to be repetative and if we do not report it they will could hurt others latter.

AS for quotes or placing names in my posts I di dthat and wa attacked and infact recieved pm screaming becasue I had put soemoens name in my post. (funny thing was this person mentioned me first).
AS for the power of the church. It is the same in ANY rlarge religion. Look at the abuses of the church of England when they had catholics arrested and killed for their faith. Or the Puritian buring people at the stake.

[Horatio]

Can I just say, it is not the Catholic Church's fault, it is the fualt of sick, twisted people who are trusted with children.

[Sigmar]

Originally posted by Horatio: Can I just say, it is not the Catholic Church's fault, it is the fualt of sick, twisted people who are trusted with children.

I agree completely with this statement, it is the fault of the individual themselves. But it is wrong of the church to try and protect the individuls from the punishment they deserve.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Greetings to you again, Lanthir.

After reviewing your last response, I don't think we are disagreeing as much as we may have thought. I believe pedophilia is one of the most reprehensible acts known to mankind - and as far as I'm concerned, there is NO punishment TOO severe for the offenders.

I apologize for getting defensive about the Baptists, that wasn't my intention. While I personally have never heard of a Baptist preacher committing such acts, I know full well that it DOES happen (in every denomination, as you pointed out).

The comments about the priests receiving "diplomatic immunity" were based on RudeDawg's original comments combined with what I've heard on the TV. While the priests have been charged, the church admitted that they had "dealt with the problem internally" (meaning they warned the priest and moved him to a different church in another state).

Still, that's just arguing semantics. Whether the molestation occurred on church grounds or in the Baptist preacher's house is completely irrelevant.

The offense is not lessened by location, but it is INCREASED when it is committed by a priest or preacher because it is a horrible violation of the respect, authority, and TRUST they are granted with their chosen profession.

In regards to the last part of your Post, I want the person who PM'ed you to know that I took no offense at the inclusion of my name in your Post. Indeed, it clarified which Post you were upset with and allowed me an opportunity to address your grievances.

Do not ever worry about including my name in any of your Posts.

Originally posted by Charean: quote: Originally posted by Lanthir: um I do no tknow why you think they are getting a slap on the wrist. the one prist has already gotten 75 years in prison with no parole and he still has more criminal charges comming they jst arrested another one from Boston and are bringign him back for trial. You also have to understadn why the dropped the settlement. They are now concerned that to many false claims are being brought. Thus they belive it is beter to handle them individualy. Also not in defense of the church but how come they never make it such a big deal when say a babtist does it.

I may be wrong, but what I got from that article was that there were SO MANY claims (I concede that some are probably fake) that it would bankrupt the Church if they were to pay a lump sum. So they decided in their infinite wisdom that it was better not to pay ANYONE.
What I saw was blatant admitting that it happened, but they didn't want to go broke admitting it. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Celibacy is the crux of the matter... and there has been talk of abolishing that... but only talk at this point. It would probably cut down on the horrendous consequences if they went the way of most religions and allowed marriage among the clergy. I await with baited breath.[/QUOTE]Uhh There is no link to celibacy and pedophilia...there are quite a number of non-celibate males that are members of a national organization called NAMBLA ..that is North American Man Boy Love association ...basicly a club for pedophiles.

Originally posted by Sigmar: quote: Originally posted by Horatio: Can I just say, it is not the Catholic Church's fault, it is the fualt of sick, twisted people who are trusted with children.

I agree completely with this statement, it is the fault of the individual themselves. But it is wrong of the church to try and protect the individuls from the punishment they deserve.[/QUOTE]It’s the Catholic Church itself that is the problem.
It’s out of date, and its powers are waning and it’s culture of secrecy and control freakery over their followers leads to exactly this kind of situation.
All it wants is to hold onto to what power remains to it by any means possible, why do you think it tries to prevent the use of contraceptives?
The Catholic Church will always attempt to hide any evidence of paedophilia since exposing it would shake confidence in the overall structure and reduce its power over people.
It is simply about power and wealth, that is all the Catholic Church seeks. That was one of the reasons why “The Prince” upset them so much long ago.

[Talthyr Malkaviel]

[quote]Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk:

All it wants is to hold onto to what power remains to it by any means possible, why do you think it tries to prevent the use of contraceptives?

Well, that would be due to their belief that since all life is sacred in the eyes of god, even while only sperm possibly, contraceptives are killing any possibility for life, which they think is wrong.
It's due to the interpretation of certain parts of the bible.

[Lanthir]

KK I do agree with your last post Cerek. [img]smile.gif[/img] Well I just put that person on ignore finally. I really do hate to be threaten. Anyway,

Dramnek_Ulk I do agree with you last post about the fact that at this point the leaders of the church are concerned about keeping their power. However they do not represent the church in total. I would draw your attention to the fact that after this recent bishops meeting that the bishops here in America which were not there rejected the fact that the proposed changes in church policy would not be retroactive. Prehaps the Roman church will eveolve as did the English church and allow marriage for all it clergy and allow the ordination of women. We shall see.