Grow up...

[Bungleau]

With all due respect, and perhaps some that isn't due at this point, discussions of topics (political and otherwise) that change into games of name-calling and one-upsmanship do not, IMHO, add any value to the topics being discussed.

If you want to impress others with your ability to insult each other, I suggest you go here:

http://www.theforumsite.com/forum.php?f=26

Took me all of 45 seconds to google it and check it out. It appears to be designed for trading insults, and you can revel in the oohs and aahs of a targeted audience as you trade your bon mots.

Failing that, you can take it to PM. Decide between you who wins. Resist the urge to report the results in the forums.

Now, I'm not a mod here, nor do I play one on TV. I'm also not reporting posts; I know that Z and the other mods watch what happens in the forums and don't need me to draw attention to anything in particular, other than the occasional spambot or troll that manages to sneak through.

However, I believe that these are the kinds of things that created a separate forum for political discussions years ago so that those who were interested in actual discussion could allow that to take place, and those who wanted to rant, rave, and go off in strange tangents could do so without bothering anyone else except those who cared about such things.

I believe they're also the kinds of things that led to suspensions, bannings, hurt feelings, and departures as well. I don't believe that worked out particularly well then... I don't see it getting better now.

Sure... I'm certain someone will pipe up, say it's all in fun, and it's part of healthy discourse. Perhaps. And someone else will likely pipe up to say that "but.. but.. s/he is just WRONG!!!!". Perhaps again.

But in this person's opinion, it's boring, dull, repetitive, and annoying. And while I'd be interested in discussing topics like these, I'm not interested in leafing through pages of posts that add nothing to the topic itself.

So with all due respect, grow up. Add value, or add silence. My own world will be better in either case.

Cheers.

[SpiritWarrior]

Unfortunately, I am going to take the afforementioned position of "it's all in fun, and it's part of healthy discourse".

Let's face it, without these rambling political topics there is not alot happening on IW nowadays. Before the political forum was nuked, GD consisted mainly of "Joke World" and "Odd News" or w/e it's called, - which was mainly copied & pasted stuff from the internet and that's about it. I suspect that is why the politics forum was taken away, to generate more conversations and activity within GD.

With the near demise of PC-gaming, far less people are active on IW than when BG and NWN's were all the rage. No longer are the "How to kill Kangaxx" threads the ones with the most views and posts.

A post with conflict in it generates far more views, hits and overall traffic than one without. More traffic equals more users. More users equal more potential donors, hits etc. In many respects, I feel it is these posts you so resent that are keeping the forum as busy as it is today. I think the mods know it too, otherwise many people would have been banned by now...or at least told to refrain.

Oh, we can all talk about how we would love a peaceful little forum to share jokes and the odd link, but realistically, it would be the death of the place. I have seen many forums mandhandled by moderators to the point where they chase everyone away. They could grant you your wish, but chances are it would reduce the userbase to yourself and a handful of others. And then they too would slowly go elsewhere as they search for something more interesting because IW would join the ranks of every other low-activity forum and low-drama and eventually, whittle away. That's just me *shrug*.

I too have echoed some of your sentiments in the past, nothing was done, so I figured this was welcomed and took the mindset of "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em". A weird thing happend - it began to make me laugh rather than cringe.

In a nutshell, it keeps things interesting, IMO. Agree or disagree with certain posters, you can't say they're not intriguing and/or funny.

[Bungleau]

Thanks for responding, SW. I too appreciate that IW has changed since I first came looking for help with W&W more than a decade ago.

To be clear: I am not against topical discussions about potentially controversial issues. I've participated on a couple of those in recent past that I find particularly intriguing.

What I am against is discussions that degenerate into name-calling and insulting comments thrown back and forth instead of discussing the actual issue at hand. I am getting tired of reading through post after post of insults, all the while wondering if there might be a valid point buried in there. And no... IMHO the various insults and such are not all that funny and intriguing. At least, not any more.

I am completely in favor of discussions, debates, and even arguments about topics of the day, especially ones that make me consider and rethink different perspectives and points of view. That is extremely valuable to me, and entertaining as well. Yes, I may have a strange definition of "entertainment"

But when the discussions drop to the level of "Well, you're a pissant!" "Oh, yeah? Well, you're a poopyhead!" "Oh, yeah? Well...", then the discussion has ceased. Tell me, what bearing does one's pissant-ness or poopy-headed-ness have on whether or not embryonic stem cell research should be performed?

What started out as something that might have been promising (at least in my opinion) turns into a rambling series of inflammatory comments designed to trump the previous comment or otherwise prove that the previous comment-maker is less intelligent than the typical tunneling dung beetle.

I'm in favor of discussions. I certainly don't want an IW comprised solely of Arvon's jokes, my Odd News, Cloudy's Cafe, the occasional RIP thread, and the monthly Trivia winners, punctuated by the occasional "Hey, I'm back! Remember me?" thread. The more topics out there, the more interesting things to discuss, the better.

I'll let Z or one of the mods clarify if needed, but the original political discussion forum was created because there were too many inflammatory posts here in GD, and too many people got confused between the post and the poster... getting offended at people because of their thoughts and positions. The Current Events (CE) forum was created to split the two so that those who didn't want to deal with the drama and such could easily avoid it.

Eventually, CE was merged back into GD... I believe that's because the traffic (and controversy) on CE had dropped dramatically, and Z felt it no longer needed its own space. The books/movies/TV forum was merged in here at the same time, IIRC... haven't looked at or for that one in a while

So... bottom-line, we probably agree for the most part. Diversity of opinion, lively conversation, a broad range of topics for discussion, these are good things to have. Name-calling for name-calling's sake? Not *quite* as useful... at least, in my opinion.

[SpiritWarrior]

Seems we do indeed agree here mostly. And yes, the books and movies forum was also dumped in here to create more conversation.

The only thing I am unclear on, is this name-calling and insulting you keep referring to. Usually, if someone crosses a line here via insults it is either censored by a mod, or the thread is locked. If you could show me a thread containing this I would have a better understanding of the issue.

[Bungleau]

I'll PM you one, since I am intentionally avoiding naming specific threads and names in this discussion. My intent is not to call anyone on the carpet, so to speak, but to move to civility.

[Felix The Assassin]

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior Seems we do indeed agree here mostly. And yes, the books and movies forum was also dumped in here to create more conversation. The only thing I am unclear on, is this name-calling and insulting you keep referring to. Usually, if someone crosses a line here via insults it is either censored by a mod, or the thread is locked. If you could show me a thread containing this I would have a better understanding of the issue.

He is referring to you. Or did that go above your limits as well? Then again, you have made it clear, so the need of the question mark is for humor.

[Bungleau]

Originally Posted by Felix The Assassin He is referring to you. Or did that go above your limits as well? Then again, you have made it clear, so the need of the question mark is for humor.

Felix, this comment is the type of thing I'm referring to. What benefit is it, exactly, to the matter being discussed? What value does it add to the conversation?

[Lord of Alcohol]

Felix and Spirit have been insulting each other for years, they are used to it. I've insulted both of them myself, I dont think either cried. I think they enjoy the banter, and speaking from an immature viewpoint (me) it can be entertaining.

[Ziroc]

Yeah, If I can have a good week/month with my health, I am going to basically re-invent Ironworks and the Forum. I already have the whole thing planned out.

It will add Console RPG's, and focus on some new things--Modding games, Editing, and 3D Modeling (in games).

This means I have to redo Ironworks Gamings webareas too--which is what will take the most time. But I will get'er done!

We'll be busy again, bring in more members and have fun once more!

(I'm trying to figure out how to pull in $60 for the bill though.. looking around to see if I can do some quick work or whatever before they cut us off lol.. because after this Month, we're golden for months!)

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by Lord of Alcohol Felix and Spirit have been insulting each other for years, they are used to it. I've insulted both of them myself, I dont think either cried. I think they enjoy the banter, and speaking from an immature viewpoint (me) it can be entertaining.

I'll have you know I did indeed cry when you insulted me. I wouldn't come out for weeks. Even then I had to have an escort.

Secondly, I agree, it is definately funny to me, but that may be because I do not take it seriously at all. If I did, I would be angry all the time. Look at Felix, for example. He's an angry bear always.