Clerics: How do they play out?

[Albromor]

The original design of the AD&D Cleric was to be the second best fighting class in the game. They could wear armor just like a fighter and though they couldn't use edged weapons there were plenty of magical hammers and maces around that added to there formible use of spells and good hitpoint potential. Unfortuantly the cleric is often played as a walking Red Cross station which only a third of this classes' potential. I have found many of the clerical defensive spells can be used offensively if done right. Anyway, I will soon be insatlling IWD (a few games I've got to finish first)and I was wondering how this game treats clerics? Are there decent weapons for this class? The old BG 1 heavily favored fighters and I hope IWD gives a better balance, though I do realize this game is a big hack & slash bonanza. Thanks.

[Electronicham]

The Clerics do tend to be walking red cross stations, but that isn't all they are good for. They actually are a decent fighting class in Icewind Dale. There are a lot of hammers and clubs that are awesome. For example, the Evil Spider Crusher of Doom is probably my favorite weapon in the game. You do need Heart of Winter to get that item. I would recommend having a Cleric in your party.

[Duneswalker]

They are the essential character. As you said they are healers, which you will need aplenty, turn undead is great as there is alot of undead in the game, and they are second only to fighters in melee. There are lots of excellent maces in the game and a good selection of hammers and flails. I don't have any problem finding good weapons for my clerics, the only problem is deciding between the many good choices, which to use. The only cleric weapon I found lacking was staves.

For an extra punch start a cleric as a fighter and dual at level 7 and two proficiency points in your weapon of choice, for two attacks per round.
Or dual a fighter to cleric at level 9 with GM in maces for three attacks per round.

I have a L7/X cleric who runs about 16% of the kills in a party of six and his spells are indispenible, in fact I recommend either an extra cleric or extra multi / dual class cleric in addition, as they are very valuable in IWD/HOW.

[Gwayne]

Clerics are awesome in this game and they play an important role in your
group!I won't adventure without one. They are also adequite fighters as
you mentioned I really enjoy playing the cleric although I must admit I
haven't relied on thier full potential's. My cleric is about lvl 23 or
so and does some seriouse dammage to anyone that stands in her way
The undead fighting capability alone is enough to seriously put the un-dead
in thier place in a hurry!I can only say this "I love them"!

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[Arquetal]

Between the fighting skills of a cleric and a fighter, the gap will always remain too great to cross. Whatever skills the cleric may possess, the fighter at the same level will batter all the monsters down before the cleric will do any good.
Only solution I can come up with are the dual- or multiclassed Fighter/Clerics. They bring reasonable spell & punching power together in a nice way. I tend to favor the dwarven multiclass version, but I have never tried that at high levels (beyond 20).

What was that again you stated, Albromor? The second best fighting class in the game? What about the ranger or the paladin, they greatly exceed the fighting skills of the cleric...

But, then again, rememeber what the Defensive Harmony does for you in IWD, not to mention all those other nice spells.


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If it is evil you seek, seek no further...

[Albromor]

Originally posted by Arquetal: What was that again you stated, Albromor? The second best fighting class in the game? What about the ranger or the paladin, they greatly exceed the fighting skills of the cleric... [/B]

In the AD&D system, whether it is the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd edition rules, Fighters, Rangers, and Paladins (as well as otheres in the later editions) all fall under the Warrior Class, though the 1st edition designated rangers and paladins as sub-classes as fighters (by the way, the Ranger in the 1st edition was awsome and the 2nd edition rules screwed this fighter class up; hope 3E straightened out the mess that the 2E rules imposed). So it is not surprising that rangers and paladins casn exceed a cleric in fighting skills because basically they are fighters with specialties.
Clerics are in a separate class and as a fighter are second to the warrior class such as Rangers and Paladins. Still, compared to other classes they are good in melee. Anyway, the whole intent of my original post was to see if a cleric in IWD can be used more than just a walking Red Cross station as a great many people think of them. An armored and weaponed spell caster is a pretty awsome character. Clerics are more flexible and valuable than a mere healer as they are often played and i was inquiring if the parameters of the game allow one to explore the characters true parameters.

[Duneswalker]

The cleric is the single best character taken on a one on one basis. Good Combat Skils, Good Weapon Selection, Turn undead, Best Spell choices, Healer. So yes I think this game does allow you to explore the class fully, of course alot depends on how you set him up and play him.

[Axterix]

Clerics are pretty awesome. But their lack of multiple attacks and lower thac0 means they don't melee that well. Plus if they aren't dual/multi fighter, low strength means less damage. Hence why people like to dual them as a fighter They have some very useful spells, from offensive (undead ward) to defensive (defensive harmony, shield of Lath) to healing (heal and ress) to dispelling (remove paralysis, cure disease, dispel, heal for feeblemind). The dispelling of holds can often make the difference between victory and defeat and nobody does it better than clerics.

Basically, a cleric is very useful to keep a party functioning and can contribute in other areas as well, though mine mainly hangs back and use slings. My clerics are what keeps the party alive/helps them recover, so I try to keep them out of harm's way. The fact that I only have one means that role is even more insured.

If you have HoW, a cleric loses a bit of its luster if you have a druid (better in melee, better offensive spells, can cast heal) and a bard (war chant of sith makes most healing pointless... a song added in HoW) in the party. However, ressurrection and the defensive spells are still great to have. My only complaint is the lack of offensive spells of clerics. Playing in HoF mode, I find most of the evil clerical spells pretty useless, as critters save against them. For good clerics, well, there is flamestrike and undead ward. Both awesome spells, especially undead ward. But what really annoys me is the lack of something like Sunbeam (the druid's level 1 offensive spell). Something quasi-useful to cast in place of cure light wounds would be nice

Anyway, if you are going evil, I'd say yah, dump the cleric and get a druid (keep in mind that's druids with HoW, without it, they aren't nearly as cool) or else go with a multi/dual class set up. Use the nifty evil only weapons like the Giving Star. But if you are going good, get a cleric and you'll love him, no need to be anything but a cleric.

[Leafy]

Evil clerics have a little more offensive spells.. like cause wounds and cloud of pestilence. but all in all, it's not much better than a good cleric.
For anypne who thinks a cleric is too weak to fight, i have 4 words for you: Draw Upon Holy Might. with a fighter cleric, this is a disgusting 2nd level spell. There is a ist level "magic stone" that does SOME dammage, but is best used to stop spellcasters. There is also a 3nd level "glyph of warding" or soemthing. it's a cool little boobie trap you can set while the rogue is lusing the enemies back to the party and it can even be cast directly on a goup of badguys for an instant blast. At high enough levels(15+), this 3nd level spell does more damage than a 10th level fireball(fireball's max).
Sanctuary assures the cleric will survive, and even makes him a good scout! and allos hims to cast any spells that do not requite a target (holy might, entropy shield, protection from evil radius 10')...

so clerics rock and they can do mre than just sling stones. but you'd do best to use the stones for a while until you can get by without memorizing a million heals.

Dwarven fighter/clerics and Gnomish cleric/illusionists and even the Half-elvin Fighter/Cleric/Mage are pretty decent multi-classes.

[Albromor]

Thanks guys for your input. Unfortuantly I won't be able to play this game for another two and a half weeks but that allows me to ponder my party makeup. I decided that I am going to use all six races just for fun and was seriously thinking of making my Gnome a cleric/illustionist. Since Leafy has suggested what I was thinking I just might do that.