PLEASE STOP!!!

Azure Wolf, you may or may not have noticed the trend these days of more amusing and lighthearted threads. You may find some of them interesting. I do my best to lighten the mood wherever I go. In fact I waste entirely too much of my day posting here when I should be working. hehe



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"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
-Robert McCloskey

[Moridin]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: I would be very alarmed for the fate of the human race if this forum were currently like what some of you seem to be saying it should be, just a place where all we talked about were trivial aspects of life and told jokes. Hell, if tempers and passions weren't flaring over the late events, what would that show except that we were emotionally dead to the world and practically souless creatures who didn't give a damn about anything important? Yes, there is a down side to passion. But the alternative is worse.

This is probably the most sensible thing I have heard!

I realize some people come here to get away from this 'passion and emotion', but some of us come here to express it. We should be able to co-exist! My question is, why do we need to move serious discussions to a seperate forum? I didn't know 'general' excluded 'serious'! What next? A seperate forum for 'home repair' threads, or perhaps a joke forum. That would seem more appropriate as jokes aren't really a 'discussion' are they?

As I have stated before on numerous threads now **sigh** We are mature enough to realize when we need to calm down and take a step back. The fact that those of us that are mostly involved in serious discussions, are still here and have not 'left' is a testament to that maturity IMHO. I may get flamed for this, but I think it is those that stomp off in a fit that the forum has 'changed' are the immature ones! If you can critisize us for passionately debating issues that we feel are important to us, then you open yourself up for the same critisism!!

Just MHO

*ducks in coming flames*

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Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time
Bossman of Better Funny Stuff.....of the Laughing Hyenas!

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Yorick: Alright, well know there's no hard feelings o.k.? About anything. I respect you. When I have discussed with you I have had to dig deep and work hard, which elicits a passion that perhaps comes out as firey, but I hold you no ill will. We possibly disagree on many things because our belief systems though similar, are similar because they are opposite. Where they are not opposite the 'Devils advocate' in both of us takes the extreme view that counters the others points. Have a good day mate. Take it easy and good health to you. Hugh

The feeling is mutual, Yorick. I have the utmost respect for you.

I think part of the "problem" is that we are both very passionate and strong egos, who obviously enjoy debating and have no qualms about playing devil's advocate. This has sometimes created a situation when we were arguing against one another when we didn't have to be.

I have wondered recently if some part of it might be trying to gain respect on some level in each other's eyes regarding our intellegience, thoughtfulness, and passion. I think we both have pursued argument against each other beyond the point of actual real disagreement, possibly ego driven. In any case, if this may in some way be true for you, I want you to know there is no need to try to gain my respect in this regard. You have already done so, many times over.

I am glad to know you, Yorick.

A good day to you too, my friend

[Cloudbringer]

Well, it seems to me that you misunderstand, Dio. Nobody is advocating a 'jokes' only style forum. What they ARE asking for is that insults and flames not be indulged in.

I read so called 'serious' threads and sometimes I choose to answer them. Am I somehow less of a person because I don't spend all my time debating and arguing? I don't think so. I happen to prefer not stressing myself to the max nearly everytime I interact with another human being, is all!

Segregating the 'serious discussions' has a plus side and a minus side. I've seen it mentioned that such threads can become totally disengaged from the rest of the forum, such that only a small handful of 'diehards' ever post there and new blood is rare. I've also seen the argument that if left in GD, at least some people like myself may choose to participate when they see a 'serious' thread of interest, because they are already in GD, thus adding a different perspective to the subject. I've noted in other forums that after a while some of the topics are so overworked and re-hashed that even the die-hards won't reopen them and sometimes no new activity takes place for days.

On the other hand, separating those 'discussions' out means that nobody will see them unless they go looking and anyone in the threads who wants to, can toss that at someone who objects to a post. I used to be one to say "if you don't like it, don't read it" and to a very large extent, that holds true. But if I DO read it, decide it bothered me enough to post about it, and get an 'in your face', "you shouldn't be here" reply, am I ever likely to WANT to participate again?! That would be enough to send me off and I daresay most new members as well. So ok, a plus is that it would certainly be clear that the topics were controversial. I don't know as it will stop flaming/insults but you'd know the subjects were 'heavy' ones and could not read them if you didn't feel in the mood to do so.

As for 'tempers and passions', I saw a lot of self-righteous and angry posts and some pretty personal digs. Making that out to be good is just something I don't understand. I also beg to disagree on the cause. I don't think it was people arriving late and asking for temperance that did it! It was individual posters who got too wrapped up in their rhetoric and had to hurt the others who disagreed in order to 'prove' a point. Not necessarily bad people, just members who forgot the 'respect' aspect of a community. Most realized it and apologized later. We ARE all on edge and I'll be happier when we have relaxed a little. I may even join the 'serious' discussions if I don't feel like I'm going to be ripped in half every time I enter them. Politeness is not a disease, but rather a cure. We need to remember that.


Cloudy, stepping off that silly soap box again!

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Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
CloudDragon of the OHF
Storm-Queen
Raven's Cloud
StormCloud of the Black Knight: Heart Mind Soul Forever
"To sleep, perchance to dream..."

[Cloudbringer]

Yorick and Dio:

.... Boy do I feel better for having seen this exchange. Thank you, both of you. I really admire and respect you both and was pretty distraught the last few days. This makes it all feel better. God Bless.


Cloudy

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Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
CloudDragon of the OHF
Storm-Queen
Raven's Cloud
StormCloud of the Black Knight: Heart Mind Soul Forever
"To sleep, perchance to dream..."

[Sir Real]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown:
And this post is any different from what you claim to be addressing?

A lot of the problems of ill feeling on some of the serious discussion threads have been caused by people jumping in late, scolding everyone else after the fact when the people originally involved have already made up and moved on.

So no one can in in after the the alleaged discussion has started that then?

The solution is simple. If you don't like the serious discussions, than stay out of the threads. I agree with Sazerac that a separate forum for such things is a good idea, like at MH or some other forums, to better enable those people who claim they hate such stuff but somehow don't seem to be able to resist it from getting offended. That way they would have no excuse whatsoever for being bothered by such things. Perhaps a sign such as "Here be Dragons, Enter at Own Risk" could be posted at the entrance to such a forum
NO one was said they do like actule discussions but HAVE been saying that what going on is not a discussion or a debate but I one side trying to shove there opinions down the others sides throat or performing personal attacks against them!

That said, it is certainly true that a lot of tempers have flared recently over the current international crisis. I have certainly been guilty of losing my cool and engaging in far less than admirable conduct lately.

However, I question what seems to be a popular feeling here that such is altogether a bad sign.

On the contrary, I think it says a lot for many of the people here, including the very ones I most often and most strongly disagree with, that they care so much about these truly grave circumstances. Whether I agree with them or not, I admire their passion for what they believe in and their realization that, yes, these ARE incredibly serious times, which call for soul searching and passionate debate.
Yes debating, not what been going on. A debate has evdience to prove something and counter evdience from the other side, they do not contain attacks on a persons system beliefs.

I would be very alarmed for the fate of the human race if this forum were currently like what some of you seem to be saying it should be, just a place where all we talked about were trivial aspects of life and told jokes. Hell, if tempers and passions weren't flaring over the late events, what would that show except that we were emotionally dead to the world and practically souless creatures who didn't give a damn about anything important? Now your just putting word into people mouths, no one said they want this or inplied it in anyway!!!!!

Yes, there is a down side to passion. But the alternative is worse.
What is their no passion in jokes or talking about peoples lives, in showing your friends that you care about them???? (See how annoying it is for someone to put words in your mouth!)



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Opinions are not clubs don't beat others with yours.

[Yorick]

Dio, Cloudy -

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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[This message has been edited by Yorick (edited 10-10-2001).]

Well, I shot my mouth off in another thread, so...
Dio and Yorick, what went on between you two in this thread is exactly what I was talking about, open respectful debate. The topic doesn't matter, the positions don't matter, but the mutual respect and civility matter very much. You both have agile minds and a good command of the language, and I personally enjoy reading your posts to each other, as I always learn something, no matter the subject or your individual positions.
I also respect the passion with which you address your ideas. Without passion, there is no point in debate or discussion. Passion is like a spice, too much overpowers the dish and leaves you tasting nothing else, too little and the dish is too bland to bother with.
For what it's worth, I wouldn't like to see the forum split up, I think the eclectic nature is a big part of the appeal, and the playoff between the serious and light is necessary for the unique flavor of the place. It seems to me that most folks that are unhappy with the tone of the forum lately, are only unhappy with just that: the tone. Very few people posting here have been unable to fit in with the general tone of respect and civility, and those that haven't are gone.
My $.02 ( I think I'm up to about $1.54 now...)

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Perversion is the true spice of life: Variety is just part of a healthy diet.

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Yorick: Dio, Cloudy -

Group hug

[Epona]

Yorick mate (and Liliara if you're here, for turning your thread into a three-ring-circus) -
I want to apologise, because a while ago (night before last I think) I responded a bit harshly to a post you made, and although I still think what I said was right, I shouldn't have said it in the way I did. Please understand that it was never my intention to be anti-christian, I just felt I had a point to make about the way I felt my beliefs were not respected - but I shouldn't have made the point the way I did, and I came across as angry.
Thanks for not rising to the bait I laid in anger, and my humblest apologies.


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Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.

Epona of The Laughing Hyenas
Proud winner of the 'Most Useless Post 250 Has Ever Seen' Award 2001. "I'd just like to thank my friends and family, without whom none of this would have been possible..."

[This message has been edited by Epona (edited 10-10-2001).]