I'm expecting a call from the police...

[Fljotsdale]

Moridin?

About your thought that Greenpeace should set up rival corporations to produce 'green' electricity etc...

That would really be a waste of effort and money, don't you think? Much more sensible to push those with the facilities and the know-how to change their production methods. Greenpeace is eminently realistic, you know! They do not look for 'pie in the sky' but workable alternatives.
As for Greenpeace demonstrating in Africa etc - again, what is the point? The industrialists who are poluting third world countries have their headquarters in the developed world. And Greenpeace as an organisation do a great deal of research and personal investigation in those areas so that they have correct information to pass on to us. Without the activities of Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth and similar caring environmental bodies you we would have little idea of what goverments and corporations were doing and they would have free reign.
If we want a decent place for our children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren to live in we need to consider rather more than the immediate buck in tne pocket.


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[Lord of Alcohol]

Hi Fljotsdale apology accepted and I offer one in return if I have inadvertently insulted you. Let us "agree to disagree" on on some aspects of the issue and remain friends

[Fljotsdale]

Ladyzekke & Nick1979 - my apologies for any offence my posts may have caused you. It was not my intention to offend you - but my post to LoA was a bit over the top. I have modified it and apologised to LoA.

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[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by Lord of Alcohol: Hi Fljotsdale apology accepted and I offer one in return if I have inadvertently insulted you. Let us "agree to disagree" on on some aspects of the issue and remain friends

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[Redblueflare]

I'm glad your daughter got through the entire protest okay. I appreciate what Green Peace does. Eventually their protests will start to have some affect. The world is getting more polluted every day. Someone has to do something about it. We only have one Earth, don't you think we should take care of it?

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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I just don't have to listen.

[Sazerac]

Originally posted by Fljotsdale: Lord of Alcohol!! My apologies for any 'flame' content in my post to you yesterday. I have deleted the parts that thought you may find offensive. My only excuse for being so blatantly rude is that I feeling pretty stressed out due to worrying about my daughter all day. I usually insult people with at least a LITTLE humour! Sorry! We don't agree on this issue, but... Friends?

Thank you, Fljotsdale AND LoA both!

"Blessed are the peacemakers..."

[Moridin]

Originally posted by Fljotsdale: Moridin? About your thought that Greenpeace should set up rival corporations to produce 'green' electricity etc... That would really be a waste of effort and money, don't you think? Much more sensible to push those with the facilities and the know-how to change their production methods. Greenpeace is eminently realistic, you know! They do not look for 'pie in the sky' but workable alternatives.

To back up my point, did you see that GreenPeace installed a wind turbine in the North Sea? Perhaps it was erected to do nothing more than prevent oil drilling in that region, but if they erected one why couldn't they erect more?

Without the activities of Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth and similar caring environmental bodies you we would have little idea of what goverments and corporations were doing and they would have free reign.

My point is that these organizations do not relay all the facts...only those that make the companies look like 'big pollution, don't care a lick about the environment' overlords.

Some facts about ExxonMobil:
*They spend $120M annualy on R&D related to Environment, Health & Safety
*They have planted over 13M trees in England through their Trees of Time and Place campaign.
*They fund environmental research programs at MIT, Carnegie-Mellon, Stanford Energy Modeling Forum, Marine Biology Laboratory, Bermuda's Biological Station of Research, IEA's Greenhouse Gas R&D program
*They spent $12M last year on research related to fuel cells, advanced internal combustion engines, and enhanced greenhouse gas seperation
*They have a joint venture with Toyota to develop an improved automotive system using fuel cells.
*They are a member of the California Fuel Cell Partnership which demonstrates fuel cell vehicles in CA and researchs the paths to commercialization of hybrid cars

You cannot expect these companies to change over night. It is unrealistic. They are making changes, but they take time. Steve Sawyer (the head of the Greenpeace protest in England) said in an interview "We have to shut this company down"...what does he expect this to accomplish?



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Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time

[kiwidoc]

I have also deleted nay of my posts that referred to someone by name. The reason I am so defensive about Greenpeace members and feel so strongly about their commitment and risk taking is a friend of mine had good friends blown to bits on the Rainbow Warrior. I saw the effects and still care deeply about what happened. However I have altered my posts in the interests of peace keeping.

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There is only one kiwidoc, accept no substitutes

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[Larry_OHF]

Originally posted by Lord of Alcohol: Ok let me get this right,I am now a paranoid delusional fool. For stating my opinion. Ok. I ask you to prove that. You owe me an apology. I stand behind my opinions, I didnt insult anyone. I pointed out the weakness of an organization. All responses toward me attacked me, not my argument. I ask again where is Greenpeace in the Third World? Or is high-profile antics all they are capable of and have the guts for? So in true Greenpeace fashion where does your electricity come from? You live in a house? How did it get built? Your computer? PLASTIC! I hate attacking like this but think about it, your being a hypocrites. If mankind does not progress, it will die. I do not like all the progresses of our modern civilization either, but some must be accepted. [This message has been edited by Lord of Alcohol (edited 07-25-2001).]

I agree with LoA, here.
I may be all for preservation of the natural enviroment we enjoy, but we do enjoy alot of niceties provided by technology. There are some cultures that refuse to use computers, drive cars, etc. I think the Quakers do this, up in Canada...not sure...Anyway, if we want to really protest, then we should cut ourselves off of the modern world and return to more simplier ways of life. Growing our own gardens, not having TV or telephone. If there were no people to buy these things, then the market would drop and businesses would lose in the economy. But, then...it is easier to be arrested than to change our way of comfortable life.



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