Language and foreign culture

[AliCat]

Sorry about the boring title, but Ziroc wants us to be more descriptive, and it was a challenge!

I have a question for all, but perhaps especially those from other countries than the U.S.A.. What is your feeling on mandating a primary language in your country?

This sort of dovetails on Lord of Alcohol's question/commentary on immigration, for similar reasons. I've heard and seen plenty of debate on states here trying to make Spanish a second language. I didn't feel very strongly about this issue in the past, but unfortunately, I am perhaps becoming more conservative (YIKES!) as time passes.

I work in the health care industry. In New York City, half of my patients were Spanish-speaking only, some of which having lived here for ten years, and some since birth. There is also a high level of Spanish-speaking-only immigrants in this area of Virginia, followed to a much lesser degree by Ukrainian-speaking-only immigrants. Working with patients such as these has now been made even more difficult by local requirements of using official translaters -- we cannot use an underage member of that person's family (and of course the kids pick up English much faster).

If I immigrated to another country, I would learn that country's language in less than a year, for my own safety as well as courtesy. My German ancestors certainly all had to do so. Yes, my job is made difficult. But I think it is ridiculous for various states or the country to contemplate making another language our secondary language, as first of all, we have waves of immigration from a variety of countries and should we just change the second language every fifty years or so, and second, why the heck should we make it easier on people who are too lazy to learn English? And yes, that's what I think we're doing, if people in this country can spend their entire lives not needing to learn any English.

Sooo... now that I've probably pissed some folks off, I'd like to know how other people or countries handle this issue, and what you think the U.S. should do (other than keep our traps shut, thank you!). So, I open the discussion for debate!

AliCat

[Redblueflare]

Long time no see Alicat! [img]graemlins/wavey.gif[/img] Anyway I think it's kinda pointless having a second language anyway. What's the point of having english as the primary language? Maybe so everyone can learn english and talk to each other? English is a difficult language to learn yes, but if I moved to another country, i'd learn their language. Wouldn't have any other choice.

[/)eathKiller]

English is VERY good, Katanaka is handy as well...
I think posessing a second language makes you less open to being killed, you can pretend to be a local [img]tongue.gif[/img] Also its really handy in situations where you're lost in a place and don't know how to get back from whence you came... It also can get you into lines of work you always assumed were already filled! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[AliCat]

I have no problem with learning a second language... or more. I studied French for seven years, German for two years, and Spanish for one year.

My objection is to mandating a second language in a state, requiring all signs to be in both English and Spanish, and so forth.

[Timber Loftis]

There should be a national language. A singular means of communication amongst people under a single government is logically necessary.

On the other hand, Americans are the most language-challenged people in the world, as a rule. We certainly should teach a children (and adults) more languages than we do. Our foreign language requirements in school are a joke, and that statement is coming from a guy who took 4 semesters of Spanish in college after taking 2 years in high school.

[Cloudbringer]

Alicat, this is a very interesting topic, one which I've seen bandied about for many years! I was a Russian language/literature major in college and when you do a BA and MA based on another culture and it's literature you find yourself hearing alot about how bad Amercians are because most of our population never bothers to learn a second language. As you noted, it can go both ways too, not only do the English speakers amongst us fail to pick up another language but those for whom English isn't the mother tongue frequently never bother to learn English.

I currently work in a University language,literature and culture department and can tell you that I've received countless calls from hospitals, lawyers offices and other professionals asking us to provide interpreters (it's translating when done in print, but interpreting if oral/aural work), mainly for Russian and Spanish. Once I ended up having to be an intermediary for a local policeman who had a homeless man to deal with downtown in the local government offices. I would talk to the one, then the other, interpreting as best I could. This guy was convinced the USA owed him but he didn't speak a word of English and never learned the system. You see, he was trying to get benefits from the Veteran's administration, but uh...helloooooooo, he wasn't an AMERICAN Veteran, sigh...and that made it a very interesting discusssion.

So I can commisserate with you and the difficulties involved in trying to do your job and help people who in some cases, refuse to help themselves. Because that's exactly what learning the local mother tongue (or official language) does for you if you reside in the country. It helps immensely. I've never understood the concept of making more languages 'official' instead of supporting people in learning. Now, that said, I'll admit that many people in the USA have the apalling attitude that they don't need to and never SHOULD bother learning another language. SOME of them have this 'we're right and perfect and the best, so everyone bow to us and learn OUR language or we won't deal with you!' attitude and I find that as close-minded as the immigrants who avoid English all their lives. I

One reason some people may not want to learn English is that they feel it will undermine their heritage and they'll 'forget' their roots etc. or be too 'Americanized'. I can sort of see why they would not want that to happen, but I honestly don't think it's a NECESSARY result of learning another language to deal with your day to day life. Conversely, I can tell the story of my best friend, who didn't grow up with a second language, yet her own maternal grandmother spoke not a word of English, only the Italian of her homeland before she emigrated. Seems my friends MOTHER and her sisters didn't want to learn the Italian or use it, because they wanted to 'fit in' here in the states where they were born. But that was back in the 40's and 50's. So I do sympathize with them, as back then there was a alot of antagonism and teasing for being 'ethnic' or 1st generation American-born, and my friend's mom just wanted to 'blend in' as it were. I had some neighbors when I was a kid, who had moved here from Canada. The father spoke NO English and never learned, the mother learned enough to get by, the oldest girls had thick accents but spoke pretty good English, the middle one had a less limited vocabulary and a slight accent, while the youngest sounded like he'd been born and raised in an all Englsh-speaking family. His French, though was quite good! They spoke French at home and it was expected that they would speak to the grandchildren in French too. Their idea being that the kids would get enough English in school.

LOL, I guess I can see more than one side on this issue. [img]smile.gif[/img] Personally, I too would learn the language of my home country (wherever I was living), in order to get along!

[realbinky]

Did you know that English isn't the official language of the US? We don't HAVE an official language. I ASSumed we did, but it turns out, we don't. I have a tough time with foreign languages myself (trying to learn them), but I do think immigrants shold learn the language of their new home. However, without an official language, how do we tell them which to learn?

[Lord Starshadow]

I'd have to say that English is one of the hardest languages to learn. Not the hardest, mind you, but very difficult. And learning to read and write English is just plain awful. So I can see why people don't want to be bothered with learning English. I studied linguistics (the study of language) in college, so I have pretty good knowledge on the subject.

However, I do happen to agree that people should at least attempt to learn the language of their home country, at least enough to be able to communicate. It doesn't mean that they have to give up their native language (in fact, I'm very against that kind of loss), but in order to be a part of the country, the home country's language should be learned.

It really is a shame that many Americans are against learning a new language. Languages are beautiful, and very helpful when traveling abroad. But many Americans seem to think that everyone in the world should speak English and use that as their reason to not learn. It's a terrible attitude that needs to change, and I think it helps fuel the perception that other countries have of Americans, that Americans feel that they are "above" all other countries.

[Timber Loftis]

ummm.... Lord Starshadow, you need to check out the International Hatred thread, where the last part of your post belongs.

I would like to learn another language properly but will admit to not having the aptitude for that - strange as i can do practically everything else LOL!!!

given the way countries speak at the moment, English is a good choice. when abroad and wanting to ask someone something, chances are there will be an English speaking person about