Mages are designed to be the best.

[250]

Originally posted by Rikard: Mages in the game are a lot better As long as you know how to play and a lot of people don't

agree, but when it comes to toe to toe combat, fighter wins.

the reason is simple: it is so very easy to get 100% magic resistence in one round

most fighter type can reach a perfect saving throw

fighters can attack mages during rounds, but mages cannot

mages spell do only little dmg to fighters, while fighters have sh*t load of HP

mages spells such as protection from magical weapon only lasts 4 rounds.

stonskin/mirror image DOES NOT help. because crom faeyr and many many other weapons can pirece through the defense. (disclaimer: try it yourself)

cloack of mirroring is way too cheap

protection from magic scoll disable mages' spell casting ability

just read all those reasons, you will find out, mages have no way to beat fighters in bgii.

remember the circumstances is BGII only, and BGII is not designed for toe to toe combat.

[Kellin da Mage]

Forgot to add a ring of spell turning to your list of protection items.

Ok that cloak is very powerfull I have to admit that. But it has it's limits. Area of effect spells work wonders on it. Meator Swarm, Ice storm, fireball, Cone of Cold, Confusion, etc. And being invisiable makes it really hard to target the mage

What do you do when the mage summons a Pit Fiend or two, and is protected from evil?

How about when the warrior in question does not have the mighty hammer of doom or the holey avenger, and does not have the cloak of relfection?

4 rounds of immunity to warrior's weapons goes along way too. Toss in time stop and your talking 7-8 rounds of immunity. Toss on him a copple lower resistence spells, malistrom, and slow. No save on a Meteor Swarm my friend. Once your done hammering on him with that a few times it's time for Power word KILL.

And if your not that high level. Remember it only takes 1 failed save to get Disintegrated. The computer mages are at a dissadvantage I have to agree on that.

Still your average Lich can hold off my party for several rounds. Most everything else can't.

And they give you in BGII some of the best mage stopper items in D&D. Wonder if the main bad guy you have to fight is a mage....hummm......

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--Kellin da Mage--

[250]

Originally posted by Kellin da Mage: Forgot to add a ring of spell turning to your list of protection items. Ok that cloak is very powerfull I have to admit that. But it has it's limits. Area of effect spells work wonders on it. Meator Swarm, Ice storm, fireball, Cone of Cold, Confusion, etc. And being invisiable makes it really hard to target the mage What do you do when the mage summons a Pit Fiend or two, and is protected from evil? How about when the warrior in question does not have the mighty hammer of doom or the holey avenger, and does not have the cloak of relfection? 4 rounds of immunity to warrior's weapons goes along way too. Toss in time stop and your talking 7-8 rounds of immunity. Toss on him a copple lower resistence spells, malistrom, and slow. No save on a Meteor Swarm my friend. Once your done hammering on him with that a few times it's time for Power word KILL. And if your not that high level. Remember it only takes 1 failed save to get Disintegrated. The computer mages are at a dissadvantage I have to agree on that. Still your average Lich can hold off my party for several rounds. Most everything else can't. And they give you in BGII some of the best mage stopper items in D&D. Wonder if the main bad guy you have to fight is a mage....hummm......

my friend, please DO NOT use area effect spells. unless I am gibbering idiot, I will not sit there and let you finish the spells and toss on me.

also, a potion of magic resistence gives me 50% magic resistence, a potion of magic shielding give me -20 save vs spell, it would take a mage close to eternity to lower those. a mage will not even damage a fighter.

and you never read my post, did you? i said, scoll of protection from magic, DISABLE mages' spell casting.

summons wont work on fighters, since he can run. area spells wont work, since he can run. mages have no way to win

once again, the circumstances is BGII.

[Fljotsdale]

Mage v Fighter, eh? You need 'em BOTH. But you can improve your Mage's survival capacity quite nicely if s/he is your created character. Create a Fighter. Then, at first level up, change to a Mage. In the Fighter creation, though, you MUST make sure s/he has a HIGH intellignece - 18 best, even if it means sacrificing some strength points. High Intelligence and high Constitution will give your fledgling Mage a MUCH better survival rate.
PS. I have not done this yet, 'cos only halfway through first game, but I've THOUGHT about it a lot, lol, and I've played lots of other ad&d games.
F.

[Draggor]

here we go again. Regular readers know that I favour fighters, mainly for their flexibility and unlimited use of skills. I'm still learning the finer nuances of mages though. In Bg2 though a fighter is better, at least in my humble opinion. A fighter can kill the powerful creatures like the dragons a lot easier by himself than a mage can. A well equipped fighter can take on a lot more than mages can. Take golems for instance: very high magic resistance, some can only be hurt by +3 or blunt weapons so summoned creatures won't hurt them, cast haste on themselves so catch you easily, immune to mind effecting spells. Admitidly most of the powerful enemies in the game are mages but that's because there aren't any real high level fighters and none of them are well equipped. Take the party in the sewers for instance, sure that mage kept pissing everyone off with his confusion and fear spells but it was that dwarf with the axe that killed everyone. If he was by himself he wouldn't be a challenge but the dwarf would at least still do some damage.
Kellin- you can't use Irenicus as an example to say that mages are the best. Irenicus cheats. He casts spells far quicker than an NPC mage could and has a lot of hitpoints and high saves for a mage. Anyway the last battle is with fighter types actually, four large demons and a slayer Irenicus who only uses protective spells then engages in melee.
Fljotsdale- exactly, the best character can be the one that combines the best of both worlds. That's why so many people are high on kensai/mages but this character can do neither job as well as a single character obviously so is laible to be out fought or out spelled as the case may be.

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Just when you thought it was safe to visit this board.

Told this many times But
You kick in the better weapons and higher classes
So what can mages be
Staff of the Archmagi invisible
timestop
Spellstrike
timestop
dubbel lower resistance
Timestop
dublle abi dalzims horrit withing

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The Legend Rikard T'Aranaxz



Master Necromancer
Clanmaster and Mental Father of the OHF

[250]

Originally posted by Rikard: Told this many times But You kick in the better weapons and higher classes So what can mages be Staff of the Archmagi invisible timestop Spellstrike timestop dubbel lower resistance Timestop dublle abi dalzims horrit withing

that wouldn't work. when you began to cast time stop, which will definately take at least 4 seconds, I will put a scoll of magic protection of you, which removes everyone of your protections. then I will just began to wack house, two hits, and you game over.

time stop & imprison is cheap, dont use it. (the counter is already listed above, so dont say I didnt warn you)

[el_kalkylus]

How many time stop scrolls are there in the game? I have only found two. What levels are you talking about here? level 30? In that case I understand why you can cast all those time stops.

250, I just found out about that scroll myself. I always got spell casting failure if I used it. I didn't know that you could use it on enemies, but in that case, the mage can't stand a chance.

[Raistlin]

Well I prefer Mages for lots of reasons I won't bother going into. What I
do want to say to everyone above who outlined their plan to kill a fighter or mage (depending on you orientation) is......... SHUT YOUR CAKE HOLES!!!!

The only way for anyone to "prove" the one class is "better" than the other
is to put up or shut up. Some of the people above have obviously given great thought to what they would do in a situation but that doesn't mean squat until you actually do it.

Remember even if you win the battle it only means you were the better man on that day, not the better man period.

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Balance

[Raistlin]

As a side note. I have read many books (100+) like The dragon lance series
etc.. The main problem I have with this conversation is that, even though it has been a long time since i read them, I do not remember the vast proliferation of magic potions/weapons/armor etc that we have here in BGII.

So to me the whole idea of getting this item or swallowing that potion does not really seem to cut the mustard with me.

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Balance