Ehh? this is interesting - Page 2

Tancred · 03-02-2002, 08:39 PM

The actual implications of the author if this site being right are terrifying, to say the least. The site presents a fair argument for claiming the Boeing never hit - but the real matter isn't 'where's the Boeing?', it's 'How did the guy who REALLY damaged the Pentagon know to coincide it with the Boeing?'. If you look at things from that perspective, you are faced with the inevitable conclusion that someone with security access to the Pentagon knew the disaster would happen well ahead of time! Is that something we can even consider?

Arvon · 03-02-2002, 09:17 PM

Some interesting points.

We are going to have conspiracy theroies for the next 20 years. There will neven be a popular conclusion. Even though we have film of the A/C going into the north tower.

The A/C that went into the WTC have not been found for the most part. The A/C seem to have vaporized. EVEN the Flight Recorders have NOT been found yet. These are made to survive a crash, any crash. There wasn't even much of the Pensilvania crash A/C.

All of the A/C were at near full fuel.

Oh BYW they did find the cockpit voice and flight recorder for the Pentagon crash.

In the Pentagon crash, there were witnesses.

[ 03-02-2002: Message edited by: Arvon ]

khazadman · 03-02-2002, 11:35 PM

and another reason you don't find alot of aircraft debris is the fact that these things are mostly aluminum and and plastic.much of it will melt in these cicumstances.
and who's to say it went in horizontaly?the plan might have been like they think happened in new york;fly into the building as close as vertical as possible to cause the most damage to the most floors.

Azred · 03-03-2002, 01:50 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Tancred:
The actual implications of the author if this site being right are terrifying, to say the least. The site presents a fair argument for claiming the Boeing never hit - but the real matter isn't 'where's the Boeing?', it's 'How did the guy who REALLY damaged the Pentagon know to coincide it with the Boeing?'. If you look at things from that perspective, you are faced with the inevitable conclusion that someone with security access to the Pentagon knew the disaster would happen well ahead of time! Is that something we can even consider?

Some people already consider that various governmental entities had prior knowledge of the timing and locations of the attacks. Naturally, they point to the carte blance that Bush has enjoyed since that day and to the sweeping authority granted to Tom Ridge and his Dept. of Homeland Security. You don't hear too much about Tom Ridge anymore these days.... Some might even go so far as to think that the attacks were allowed happen to give the government this kind of power. [img]graemlins/dontknowaboutyou.gif[/img]
Now that there is a "shadow government" already in place, this will only pour fuel on the conspiracy theory fire. I suppose they will now think that Bush is only one step away from gaining complete dictatorial control of the United States.

quote:
Originally posted by Arvon:
The A/C that went into the WTC have not been found for the most part. The A/C seem to have vaporized. EVEN the Flight Recorders have NOT been found yet. These are made to survive a crash, any crash. There wasn't even much of the Pensilvania crash A/C.

All of the A/C were at near full fuel.

Oh BYW they did find the cockpit voice and flight recorder for the Pentagon crash.

Excellent point about the flight recorders. Given that the heat of the exploding jet fuel could weaken the reinforced steel in the Towers and the thousands of tons of collapsing concrete, I don't think those two recorders will ever be found. The only data about those particular flights will have to come from air traffic control radar records.

Tobbin · 03-03-2002, 12:35 PM

There is one other possibility here too. The plane could have exploded on impact with the ground and skidded into the pentagon at a deflected angle.This would have absorbed a great amount of speed from the plane. Also, many of the planes have parts made from Molbydenum (sp?) (I think that's what it's called) and when these are heated to a certain point (possible from the flash point of an explosion) will burn to a degree where they will create the 3 points of the fire triangle without any assistance from outside atomosphere. In other words, does not need oxygen to burn and will provide enough heat that it will burn itself out. This is one of the reasons why a crash can leave little debris. When I was in the Navy, we were instructed to push airplane off of the ship (safety videos), rather than try to fight the fire because there is no way to put it out (short of exploding a concussion bomb beside it). Even when aircraft would be pushed into the water, the fire would still burn because it was superhot and provided it's own oxygen. Just something to note.

Tancred · 03-03-2002, 05:31 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Tobbin:
There is one other possibility here too. The plane could have exploded on impact with the ground and skidded into the pentagon at a deflected angle.This would have absorbed a great amount of speed from the plane. Also, many of the planes have parts made from Molbydenum (sp?) (I think that's what it's called) and when these are heated to a certain point (possible from the flash point of an explosion) will burn to a degree where they will create the 3 points of the fire triangle without any assistance from outside atomosphere. In other words, does not need oxygen to burn and will provide enough heat that it will burn itself out. This is one of the reasons why a crash can leave little debris. When I was in the Navy, we were instructed to push airplane off of the ship (safety videos), rather than try to fight the fire because there is no way to put it out (short of exploding a concussion bomb beside it). Even when aircraft would be pushed into the water, the fire would still burn because it was superhot and provided it's own oxygen. Just something to note.

The only flaw to that argument being, alas, that the lawn outside the Pentagon looks untouched. Except when it's covered with sand. Heyyyy, maybe that's why they covered it with sand! To prevent anyone pointing and saying 'were's the skidmarks of the plane?'. Wow, I'm getting the hang of this conspiracy theorist thing.

And why *do* they make planes with materials with such chemical annoyances as Molbydenum, anyhow?

Tancred · 03-03-2002, 05:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Arvon:

Oh BYW they did find the cockpit voice and flight recorder for the Pentagon crash.

[ 03-02-2002: Message edited by: Arvon ]

Does anyone know what was on it?

Buttercup · 03-03-2002, 05:34 PM

I can explain the gravel and sand. They were preparing a temporary roadbed. Lots of heavy debris had to be trucked out of there, and then the building materials had to be trucked back in.

We had a dumpster in our back yard for a week last summer while we had a new roof put on the house, and it left a depression in our yard. That dumpster was a lot lighter than the huge cranes they had to bring in, and the vast amounts of stuff that had to be hauled out.

Ladyzekke · 03-03-2002, 06:05 PM

That plane few right over my head while in traffic on my way to work on Sept 11th in Arlington, VA. I mean RIGHT over our heads, extremely low to the ground, freaked me out that's for sure (one of those "woah!" moments. I was only a few miles away from the Pentagon at that time. No, I didn't see it actually hit the Pentagon, but I've seen many a plane on a daily basis, none fly THAT low even when coming in for a landing at National Airport. It crashed, no doubt in my mind.

Arvon · 03-03-2002, 06:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Tobbin:
There is one other possibility here too. The plane could have exploded on impact with the ground and skidded into the pentagon at a deflected angle.This would have absorbed a great amount of speed from the plane. Also, many of the planes have parts made from Molbydenum (sp?) (I think that's what it's called) and when these are heated to a certain point (possible from the flash point of an explosion) will burn to a degree where they will create the 3 points of the fire triangle without any assistance from outside atomosphere. In other words, does not need oxygen to burn and will provide enough heat that it will burn itself out. This is one of the reasons why a crash can leave little debris. When I was in the Navy, we were instructed to push airplane off of the ship (safety videos), rather than try to fight the fire because there is no way to put it out (short of exploding a concussion bomb beside it). Even when aircraft would be pushed into the water, the fire would still burn because it was superhot and provided it's own oxygen. Just something to note.

I think the metal you are talking about is magnesium. Used in Thermite bombs.

03-02-2002, 08:39 PM	#11
Tancred White Dragon Join Date: April 1, 2001 Location: UK Age: 43 Posts: 1,893	The actual implications of the author if this site being right are terrifying, to say the least. The site presents a fair argument for claiming the Boeing never hit - but the real matter isn't 'where's the Boeing?', it's 'How did the guy who REALLY damaged the Pentagon know to coincide it with the Boeing?'. If you look at things from that perspective, you are faced with the inevitable conclusion that someone with security access to the Pentagon knew the disaster would happen well ahead of time! Is that something we can even consider? __________________ \"HELP! I\'ve superglued myself to a flaming bowling ball!\"

03-02-2002, 09:17 PM	#12
Arvon Unicorn Join Date: October 4, 2001 Location: Kingdom of the West,..P.o. Cynagus Posts: 4,212	Some interesting points. We are going to have conspiracy theroies for the next 20 years. There will neven be a popular conclusion. Even though we have film of the A/C going into the north tower. The A/C that went into the WTC have not been found for the most part. The A/C seem to have vaporized. EVEN the Flight Recorders have NOT been found yet. These are made to survive a crash, any crash. There wasn't even much of the Pensilvania crash A/C. All of the A/C were at near full fuel. Oh BYW they did find the cockpit voice and flight recorder for the Pentagon crash. In the Pentagon crash, there were witnesses. [ 03-02-2002: Message edited by: Arvon ] __________________ 53.7% of all statistics are made up

03-03-2002, 01:50 AM	#14
Azred Drow Priestess Join Date: March 13, 2001 Location: a hidden sanctorum high above the metroplex Age: 54 Posts: 4,037	quote: Originally posted by Tancred: The actual implications of the author if this site being right are terrifying, to say the least. The site presents a fair argument for claiming the Boeing never hit - but the real matter isn't 'where's the Boeing?', it's 'How did the guy who REALLY damaged the Pentagon know to coincide it with the Boeing?'. If you look at things from that perspective, you are faced with the inevitable conclusion that someone with security access to the Pentagon knew the disaster would happen well ahead of time! Is that something we can even consider? Some people already consider that various governmental entities had prior knowledge of the timing and locations of the attacks. Naturally, they point to the carte blance that Bush has enjoyed since that day and to the sweeping authority granted to Tom Ridge and his Dept. of Homeland Security. You don't hear too much about Tom Ridge anymore these days.... Some might even go so far as to think that the attacks were allowed happen to give the government this kind of power. [img]graemlins/dontknowaboutyou.gif[/img] Now that there is a "shadow government" already in place, this will only pour fuel on the conspiracy theory fire. I suppose they will now think that Bush is only one step away from gaining complete dictatorial control of the United States. quote: Originally posted by Arvon: The A/C that went into the WTC have not been found for the most part. The A/C seem to have vaporized. EVEN the Flight Recorders have NOT been found yet. These are made to survive a crash, any crash. There wasn't even much of the Pensilvania crash A/C. All of the A/C were at near full fuel. Oh BYW they did find the cockpit voice and flight recorder for the Pentagon crash. Excellent point about the flight recorders. Given that the heat of the exploding jet fuel could weaken the reinforced steel in the Towers and the thousands of tons of collapsing concrete, I don't think those two recorders will ever be found. The only data about those particular flights will have to come from air traffic control radar records. __________________ Everything may be explained by a conspiracy theory. All conspiracy theories are true. No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

03-03-2002, 12:35 PM	#15
Tobbin Red Dragon Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Holiday, FL Age: 56 Posts: 1,507	There is one other possibility here too. The plane could have exploded on impact with the ground and skidded into the pentagon at a deflected angle.This would have absorbed a great amount of speed from the plane. Also, many of the planes have parts made from Molbydenum (sp?) (I think that's what it's called) and when these are heated to a certain point (possible from the flash point of an explosion) will burn to a degree where they will create the 3 points of the fire triangle without any assistance from outside atomosphere. In other words, does not need oxygen to burn and will provide enough heat that it will burn itself out. This is one of the reasons why a crash can leave little debris. When I was in the Navy, we were instructed to push airplane off of the ship (safety videos), rather than try to fight the fire because there is no way to put it out (short of exploding a concussion bomb beside it). Even when aircraft would be pushed into the water, the fire would still burn because it was superhot and provided it's own oxygen. Just something to note. __________________ <br /><br /><b>Protectorate of the OHF<br />Death Waits 4 U ALL</b>

03-03-2002, 05:31 PM	#16
Tancred White Dragon Join Date: April 1, 2001 Location: UK Age: 43 Posts: 1,893	quote: Originally posted by Tobbin: There is one other possibility here too. The plane could have exploded on impact with the ground and skidded into the pentagon at a deflected angle.This would have absorbed a great amount of speed from the plane. Also, many of the planes have parts made from Molbydenum (sp?) (I think that's what it's called) and when these are heated to a certain point (possible from the flash point of an explosion) will burn to a degree where they will create the 3 points of the fire triangle without any assistance from outside atomosphere. In other words, does not need oxygen to burn and will provide enough heat that it will burn itself out. This is one of the reasons why a crash can leave little debris. When I was in the Navy, we were instructed to push airplane off of the ship (safety videos), rather than try to fight the fire because there is no way to put it out (short of exploding a concussion bomb beside it). Even when aircraft would be pushed into the water, the fire would still burn because it was superhot and provided it's own oxygen. Just something to note. The only flaw to that argument being, alas, that the lawn outside the Pentagon looks untouched. Except when it's covered with sand. Heyyyy, maybe that's why they covered it with sand! To prevent anyone pointing and saying 'were's the skidmarks of the plane?'. Wow, I'm getting the hang of this conspiracy theorist thing. And why do they make planes with materials with such chemical annoyances as Molbydenum, anyhow? __________________ \"HELP! I\'ve superglued myself to a flaming bowling ball!\"

03-02-2002, 11:35 PM	#13
khazadman User suspended until [Feb13] Join Date: December 6, 2001 Location: the south side of ol virginny Age: 62 Posts: 1,172	and another reason you don't find alot of aircraft debris is the fact that these things are mostly aluminum and and plastic.much of it will melt in these cicumstances. and who's to say it went in horizontaly?the plan might have been like they think happened in new york;fly into the building as close as vertical as possible to cause the most damage to the most floors.

03-03-2002, 05:33 PM	#17
Tancred White Dragon Join Date: April 1, 2001 Location: UK Age: 43 Posts: 1,893	quote: Originally posted by Arvon: Oh BYW they did find the cockpit voice and flight recorder for the Pentagon crash. [ 03-02-2002: Message edited by: Arvon ] Does anyone know what was on it? __________________ \"HELP! I\'ve superglued myself to a flaming bowling ball!\"

03-03-2002, 05:34 PM	#18
Buttercup Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: February 19, 2002 Location: USA Posts: 6	I can explain the gravel and sand. They were preparing a temporary roadbed. Lots of heavy debris had to be trucked out of there, and then the building materials had to be trucked back in. We had a dumpster in our back yard for a week last summer while we had a new roof put on the house, and it left a depression in our yard. That dumpster was a lot lighter than the huge cranes they had to bring in, and the vast amounts of stuff that had to be hauled out.

03-03-2002, 06:05 PM	#19
Ladyzekke Ironworks Atomic Moderator Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Virginia, U.S.A. Age: 57 Posts: 9,005	That plane few right over my head while in traffic on my way to work on Sept 11th in Arlington, VA. I mean RIGHT over our heads, extremely low to the ground, freaked me out that's for sure (one of those "woah!" moments. I was only a few miles away from the Pentagon at that time. No, I didn't see it actually hit the Pentagon, but I've seen many a plane on a daily basis, none fly THAT low even when coming in for a landing at National Airport. It crashed, no doubt in my mind. __________________ Reality Show Recaps

03-03-2002, 06:10 PM	#20
Arvon Unicorn Join Date: October 4, 2001 Location: Kingdom of the West,..P.o. Cynagus Posts: 4,212	quote: Originally posted by Tobbin: There is one other possibility here too. The plane could have exploded on impact with the ground and skidded into the pentagon at a deflected angle.This would have absorbed a great amount of speed from the plane. Also, many of the planes have parts made from Molbydenum (sp?) (I think that's what it's called) and when these are heated to a certain point (possible from the flash point of an explosion) will burn to a degree where they will create the 3 points of the fire triangle without any assistance from outside atomosphere. In other words, does not need oxygen to burn and will provide enough heat that it will burn itself out. This is one of the reasons why a crash can leave little debris. When I was in the Navy, we were instructed to push airplane off of the ship (safety videos), rather than try to fight the fire because there is no way to put it out (short of exploding a concussion bomb beside it). Even when aircraft would be pushed into the water, the fire would still burn because it was superhot and provided it's own oxygen. Just something to note. I think the metal you are talking about is magnesium. Used in Thermite bombs.

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