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Old 08-25-2010, 11:47 AM   #1
wellard
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Perplexed Ground Zero mosque

Ground Zero mosque

This story is starting to get a lot of attention over here. On first look I am stunned to find myself agreeing with a lot of right wing commentators - so I guess I am missing out on some facts ... What do you think about it.
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Old 08-25-2010, 12:15 PM   #2
Timber Loftis
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Default Re: Ground Zero mosque

A. It's not a mosque, it's a community center. It will have a prayer room, but it will also have a gym, a basketball court, and a auditorium. It will be Muslim funded, but not limited to Muslims. The biggest fear in NYC is that much like the Jewish community center (the 92nd Street Y) that it's modeled after (which no one calls a synagogue), it will create another high-end day care that people compete to get their kids into. It's a building where Muslims already pray, so it will be no more a mosque then than it is now. It's a high rise building, has no minarets, etc. etc.

B. There's another mosque already that close to "Ground Zero" -- it pre-dates the World Trade Center. Actually it's 4 blocks away, not 2.5 like 42 Park Place is.

C. There's like a bazillion falafel stands and middle eastern eateries and stores in the area already. If you've stood on the street in that area of New York, you'd feel as if you could be in every country in the world at once, including many Muslim ones. If you've ever been to New York, you know what real multiculturalism is. Turbans and burqas are present enough that no one notices. Except tourists and retarded right wing asshats.

D. There's another mosque actually AT ground zero -- it's INSIDE the Pentagon, the world's largest office building, and muslims pray daily at it. Because, like, you know, we're a MULTICULTURAL society. Actually it's a prayer chapel for all faiths, built near where the attacks occurred, and dedicated on 9/11/02.
Quote:
"We have a wide variety of services," says Wright. "Protestant, Catholic Jewish, Hindu, Mormon, Episcopalian and Muslim. It is not unlike any other military chapel in any other military instillation around the world."
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=25&sid=2031079

E. The "evil" Imam Rauf behind the mosque is regularly sent by D.C. on humanitarian and diplomatic missions to the middle east. He eulogized the reporter Pearl at his funeral in a SYNAGOGUE.

F. The money behind the "evil" Kingdom Foundation that funds the Imam comes from a Saudi named Bin Talal who is Rupert Murdoch's partner in News Corp and therefore owns Faux News.

G. Faux News reported on this in Dec. 2009 with very little fervor, and interviewed Imam Rauf. No big deal. Then sometime around May 2010, oh say ELECTION SEASON, it became a big-to-do on Faux.

Watch this:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mo...0/mosque-erade

Then watch this:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mo...t-company-trap

Now maybe you will at least know the facts. Unlike the blind ass f'n retards who think the Ground Zero Mosque is an issue. People are so f'n stupid, it makes me want to cry.
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Old 08-25-2010, 04:27 PM   #3
Hindsight
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Default Re: Ground Zero mosque

We're already 196 posts into it, on the TBF:

http://forums.terrybrooks.net/PostVi...=867028&page=8
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Old 08-25-2010, 04:56 PM   #4
Firestormalpha
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Default Re: Ground Zero mosque

Well, constitutionally, do they have the right to build there? Yes.
Many New Yorkers are against it being built there because the professed religious beliefs of the terrorists was Islam.
The group behind the buildng claims that it wants to build the facility to foster peace and understanding between different cultures and beliefs.
A noble goal. But at the same time they seem unwilling to alter their location inspite of heavy popular dissent. This doesn't sound like an attempt to foster peace and understanding. But that's just my observation.

Now the real question is, will the New Yorkers against the mosque/civic center (whatever you want to call it) be any happier if the building is moved elsewhere in New York? Based on the heated emotions displayed at rallies, I'd have to guess not.

Still, they do have the right to build.

My personal take, if they want to build and be productive and helpful in the community, let them. But I'm not a New Yorker (or Opra), so my opinion doesn't mean much.
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Last edited by Firestormalpha; 08-25-2010 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 08-25-2010, 05:47 PM   #5
Timber Loftis
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Default Re: Ground Zero mosque

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firestormalpha View Post
But at the same time they seem unwilling to alter their location inspite of heavy popular dissent.
Actually, the Imam in question has indicated that due to this outcry he is of course willing to relocate.

But he shouldn't have to. The siting of a high rise is something that goes through the City and takes years to plan. If we're going to insist they move the location, why couldn't we have told them last year rather than require new siting procedures new zoning considerations and delay to their project? It's not fair.

The most revealing thing to me is that Fox reported on this in December, but no one thought to raise their hackles until election season rolled around. It strikes me as bread and circus just to feed and create a media frenzy.

And the real problem is, as I tried to ouline, that no one is getting the facts right. It's all lies, spin, and truthiness.

Quote:
Bloomberg said that by prohibiting the construction of the mosque, the city and the country would be “compromising our commitment to fighting terror with freedom.”

“We would undercut the values and principles that so many heroes died protecting,” he said.

Bloomberg raised questions about the after-effects of not allowing the mosque’s construction, saying it would then boil down creating a “mosque-free” boundary around ground zero.

“The question will then become how big should the no-mosque zone around the World Trade Center be,” Bloomberg said. “There is already a mosque four blocks away. Should it, too, be moved?”
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Old 08-25-2010, 05:54 PM   #6
Timber Loftis
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Default Re: Ground Zero mosque

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-s..._b_660585.html
Maps and video of the situation.
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Old 08-25-2010, 06:17 PM   #7
Firestormalpha
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Default Re: Ground Zero mosque

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timber Loftis View Post
Actually, the Imam in question has indicated that due to this outcry he is of course willing to relocate.
I could have sworn I put mentioned that my info was based on an article I read weeks ago and may be outdated. But review of my post shows that I did not. I could've sworn I put that in there.

But you raise valid points, as does Bloomberg.

Telling the Imam to build elsewhere is essentially a first ammendment violation. What other religious or non-religious groups can we tell to build somewhere else, if we take this step? And where do the limitations stop?
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Last edited by Firestormalpha; 08-25-2010 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 08-25-2010, 08:05 PM   #8
wellard
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Default Re: Ground Zero mosque

Thanks Timber, I knew I was missing important facts as is usually the case if I end up nodding in agreement with Limburgh (sp?). I should know better than make opinions based on sound bytes.
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Old 08-25-2010, 08:18 PM   #9
Felix The Assassin
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Default Re: Ground Zero mosque

Quote:
Originally Posted by wellard View Post
Thanks Timber, I knew I was missing important facts as is usually the case if I end up nodding in agreement with Limburgh (sp?). I should know better than make opinions based on sound bytes.
Geez Wellard, how can you listen to that?
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Old 08-26-2010, 09:48 AM   #10
Micah Foehammer
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Default Re: Ground Zero mosque

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timber Loftis View Post

B. There's another mosque already that close to "Ground Zero" -- it pre-dates the World Trade Center. Actually it's 4 blocks away, not 2.5 like 42 Park Place is.

F. The money behind the "evil" Kingdom Foundation that funds the Imam comes from a Saudi named Bin Talal who is Rupert Murdoch's partner in News Corp and therefore owns Faux News.


In the interest of keeping the information accurate:

The mosque you refer to, the Masjid Manhattan, had their lease revoked in late 2008, early 2009 and was shut down. The staff was forced to vacate the premises and have relocated to the basement of a nearby building two doors down the street. The next nearest mosque is the Assata Islamic Center Inc‎ about 1.4 miles away from ground zero.


Can someone update the status of the funding for the mosque? This is what I found in an article in Politico from August 18th:

Mosque a long shot to be built
8/18/10


The efforts to launch the $100 million Cordoba House (now dubbed Park51) two blocks north of the World Trade Center site have been an uphill battle from the start, and not just because of controversy. And even as the “Ground Zero Mosque” emerges as a hotly debated national symbol, New York government officials and real estate insiders are privately questioning whether the project has much chance of coming to fruition.

The Cordoba Initiative hasn’t yet begun fundraising for its $100 million goal. The group’s latest fundraising report with the state attorney general’s office, from 2008, shows exactly $18,255 — not enough even for a down payment on the half of the site the group has yet to purchase.

The group also lacks even the most basic real estate essentials: no blueprint, architect, lobbyist or engineer — and now operates amid crushing negative publicity. The developers didn't line up advance support for the project from other religious leaders in the city, who could have risen to their defense with the press.

The group’s spokesman, Oz Sultan, wouldn’t rule out developing the site with foreign money in an interview with POLITICO — but said the project’s goal is to rely on domestic funds. Currently, they have none of either.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/41238.html

There have also been a couple of other articles that seem to corroborate that the funding for the site purchase and construction is not yet secured. Is the funding from Alwaleed bin Talal actually funding for the construction itself or is it funding for the parent organization which is proposing the project?

And one other:

Originally named "Cordoba House", the name of the building has since been changed to Park51.

"The project's sponsors explained that the original name of the center was meant to invoke 8th–11th century Córdoba, which they call a model of peaceful coexistence between Muslims, Christians, and Jews. The proposal triggered an intense nationwide controversy, with opponents of the project objecting to its proximity to the site of the September 11 attacks, its scale, sources of funding, or expressing concern that the project's name was intended as a reference to the Islamic conquest of the Christian city of Córdoba, Spain."


Nice summary of the facts TL.
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