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Old 09-04-2010, 03:05 AM   #41
Cerek
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Default Re: Ground Zero mosque

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timber Loftis View Post
http://www.salon.com/news/911_christ...nd_zero_church

What about the extremist 9/11 Christian Center?
This is the first time I've heard of Bill Keller or his proposed 9-11 Christian Center.

After reading the other article links in the Salon article and taking a look at Bill Kellers' website myself, I have to agree with Andy Sullivan's objections to the 9-11 Christian Center.

"This guy is going to justify all the people who call us bigots and racists for opposing the mosque," he said. (Andy Sullivan)

That sums it up very well
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Old 09-07-2010, 09:20 PM   #42
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Default Re: Ground Zero mosque

I'm a Christian and slight right of middle sometimes and I have no issues with a Mosque on property they own, for goodness sake. I DO have issues with people making issues where there don't need to be any. If the mosque turns out to be a terrorist stronghold, as some want to claim, then deal with it like any other. If not, then in my opinion, it is like any other religious building in the area. But then again, I do not live in NYC nor am I personally linked to the events there so it's just an opinion.
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Old 09-08-2010, 10:26 AM   #43
wellard
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Default Re: Ground Zero mosque

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Originally Posted by Cloudbringer View Post
I'm a Christian and slight right of middle sometimes and I have no issues with a Mosque on property they own, for goodness sake. I DO have issues with people making issues where there don't need to be any. If the mosque turns out to be a terrorist stronghold, as some want to claim, then deal with it like any other. If not, then in my opinion, it is like any other religious building in the area. But then again, I do not live in NYC nor am I personally linked to the events there so it's just an opinion.
*hugs for Cloudy*

Now get off your tush and build a new cafe before someone builds a mosque on the site will ya!

*more hugs*
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Old 09-08-2010, 06:34 PM   #44
Timber Loftis
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Default Re: Ground Zero mosque

Building on Faith

By FEISAL ABDUL RAUF

AS my flight approached America last weekend, my mind circled back to the furor that has broken out over plans to build Cordoba House, a community center in Lower Manhattan.I have been away from home for two months, speaking abroad about cooperation among people from different religions. Every day, including the past two weeks spent representing my country on a State Department tour in the Middle East, I have been struck by how the controversy has riveted the attention of Americans, as well as nearly everyone I met in my travels.

We have all been awed by how inflamed and emotional the issue of the proposed community center has become. The level of attention reflects the degree to which people care about the very American values under debate: recognition of the rights of others, tolerance and freedom of worship.

Many people wondered why I did not speak out more, and sooner, about this project. I felt that it would not be right to comment from abroad. It would be better if I addressed these issues once I returned home to America, and after I could confer with leaders of other faiths who have been deliberating with us over this project. My life’s work has been focused on building bridges between religious groups and never has that been as important as it is now.

We are proceeding with the community center, Cordoba House. More important, we are doing so with the support of the downtown community, government at all levels and leaders from across the religious spectrum, who will be our partners. I am convinced that it is the right thing to do for many reasons.

Above all, the project will amplify the multifaith approach that the Cordoba Initiative has deployed in concrete ways for years. Our name, Cordoba, was inspired by the city in Spain where Muslims, Christians and Jews co-existed in the Middle Ages during a period of great cultural enrichment created by Muslims. Our initiative is intended to cultivate understanding among all religions and cultures.

Our broader mission — to strengthen relations between the Western and Muslim worlds and to help counter radical ideology — lies not in skirting the margins of issues that have polarized relations within the Muslim world and between non-Muslims and Muslims. It lies in confronting them as a joint multifaith, multinational effort.

From the political conflicts between Israelis and Palestinians to the building of a community center in Lower Manhattan, Muslims and members of all faiths must work together if we are ever going to succeed in fostering understanding and peace.

At Cordoba House, we envision shared space for community activities, like a swimming pool, classrooms and a play space for children. There will be separate prayer spaces for Muslims, Christians, Jews and men and women of other faiths. The center will also include a multifaith memorial dedicated to victims of the Sept. 11 attacks.

I am very sensitive to the feelings of the families of victims of 9/11, as are my fellow leaders of many faiths. We will accordingly seek the support of those families, and the support of our vibrant neighborhood, as we consider the ultimate plans for the community center. Our objective has always been to make this a center for unification and healing.

Cordoba House will be built on the two fundamental commandments common to Judaism, Christianity and Islam: to love the Lord our creator with all of our hearts, minds, souls and strength; and to love our neighbors as we love ourselves. We want to foster a culture of worship authentic to each religious tradition, and also a culture of forging personal bonds across religious traditions.

I do not underestimate the challenges that will be involved in bringing our work to completion. (Construction has not even begun yet.) I know there will be interest in our financing, and so we will clearly identify all of our financial backers.

Lost amid the commotion is the good that has come out of the recent discussion. I want to draw attention, specifically, to the open, law-based and tolerant actions that have taken place, and that are particularly striking for Muslims.

President Obama and Mayor Michael Bloomberg both spoke out in support of our project. As I traveled overseas, I saw firsthand how their words and actions made a tremendous impact on the Muslim street and on Muslim leaders. It was striking: a Christian president and a Jewish mayor of New York supporting the rights of Muslims. Their statements sent a powerful message about what America stands for, and will be remembered as a milestone in improving American-Muslim relations.

The wonderful outpouring of support for our right to build this community center from across the social, religious and political spectrum seriously undermines the ability of anti-American radicals to recruit young, impressionable Muslims by falsely claiming that America persecutes Muslims for their faith. These efforts by radicals at distortion endanger our national security and the personal security of Americans worldwide. This is why Americans must not back away from completion of this project. If we do, we cede the discourse and, essentially, our future to radicals on both sides. The paradigm of a clash between the West and the Muslim world will continue, as it has in recent decades at terrible cost. It is a paradigm we must shift.

From those who recognize our rights, from grassroots organizers to heads of state, I sense a global desire to build on this positive momentum and to be part of a global movement to heal relations and bring peace. This is an opportunity we must grasp.

I therefore call upon all Americans to rise to this challenge. Let us commemorate the anniversary of 9/11 by pausing to reflect and meditate and tone down the vitriol and rhetoric that serves only to strengthen the radicals and weaken our friends’ belief in our values.

The very word “islam” comes from a word cognate to shalom, which means peace in Hebrew. The Koran declares in its 36th chapter, regarded by the Prophet Muhammad as the heart of the Koran, in a verse deemed the heart of this chapter, “Peace is a word spoken from a merciful Lord.”

How better to commemorate 9/11 than to urge our fellow Muslims, fellow Christians and fellow Jews to follow the fundamental common impulse of our great faith traditions?


Feisal Abdul Rauf is the chairman of the Cordoba Initiative and the imam of the Farah mosque in Lower Manhattan.
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Old 09-08-2010, 08:06 PM   #45
Cerek
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Default Re: Ground Zero mosque

As pointed out earlier, the word "Islam" means "submission", not peace. I suppose it does cognate (share etymological origins) with "shalom", but that doesn't mean they have the same meaning. In English, the words "shirt" and "skirt" also cognate.

As for Cordoba, Spain (the admitted inspiration for the "Cordoba House"), it is represents the site of a major Muslim victory over the natives and their established religion. The Muslims did NOT promote coexistence there, they destroyed the Cordoba existing temple and built a mosque on top of the ruins. I suppose that is the "cultural enrichment" Rauf is referring to that the Muslims brought to the area.

It was argued on Oasis that the name was chosen specifically because it represents a great Muslim victory and the new "cultural center" will be viewed the same - as a major Muslim victory over the infidels in America. That argument was pooh-poohed by some, but now Rauf is openly admitting the project was specifically named for of "great Muslim cultural enrichment".

Does this mean the [s]mosque[/s] "cultural center" will be a training ground and staging area for terrorists? I seriously doubt it, but there is no doubt it IS being pursued as a defiance to those who object and in the hopes of showing that Islam can achieve another major "victory" and there is nothing the natives can do about it. That tends to undermine their supposed promotion of peace, love and understanding among faiths.
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Old 09-08-2010, 09:19 PM   #46
Timber Loftis
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Default Re: Ground Zero mosque

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Originally Posted by Cerek View Post
As pointed out earlier, the word "Islam" means "submission", not peace. I suppose it does cognate (share etymological origins) with "shalom", but that doesn't mean they have the same meaning.
I'm sure it's your position to tell him what the word "Islam" means. Pretty pretentious.

Quote:
As for Cordoba, Spain (the admitted inspiration for the "Cordoba House"), it is represents the site of a major Muslim victory over the natives and their established religion. The Muslims did NOT promote coexistence there, they destroyed the Cordoba existing temple and built a mosque on top of the ruins. I suppose that is the "cultural enrichment" Rauf is referring to that the Muslims brought to the area.

It was argued on Oasis that the name was chosen specifically because it represents a great Muslim victory and the new "cultural center" will be viewed the same - as a major Muslim victory over the infidels in America.
Sounds like 2 parts fear-mongered prejudice mixed with 1 part sour grapes and 3 parts revisionist history with a dash of over-reaching and hyperbole thrown in. And, again, thanks for having the audacity to tell him what the name for his center means. I would think he gets to define it, not you. What's worse about this is it's not even your own idea, just regurgitated Faux News bullshit.

As for that other site, why reference it here? I felt so compelled to leave there that I didn't just go away but rather deleted and removed my ability to post there. Ideas imported from there by reference won't get read by me and have no meaning to me. There are certain people there who bothered me so much that I, someone who can talk to about anyone, felt the need to leave. So, please don't rely on those references when talking to me. I don't want to trash any websites, but this keeps coming up.
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Old 09-08-2010, 09:38 PM   #47
Firestormalpha
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Default Re: Ground Zero mosque

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timber Loftis View Post
I'm sure it's your position to tell him what the word "Islam" means. Pretty pretentious.
The definition of a word is the definition of a word. It really doesn't matter who's correcting who, as long as the correction is accurate.

Quote:
As for that other site, why reference it here? I felt so compelled to leave there that I didn't just go away but rather deleted and removed my ability to post there. Ideas imported from there by reference won't get read by me and have no meaning to me.
Yet you felt the need to comment on the fact that he mentioned it. I would be more convinced of this sentiment had I never seen it.


As for the mosque. If they own the land, they can build there with the appropriate permits. And it really doesn't matter what anyone has to say about it.
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Old 09-08-2010, 10:22 PM   #48
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Default Re: Ground Zero mosque

Well, since you put it that way,

Quote:
It really doesn't matter who's correcting who"m", as long as the correction is accurate.
Sorry, insatiable need to be an ass, overtook me.
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Old 09-08-2010, 10:26 PM   #49
Firestormalpha
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Default Re: Ground Zero mosque

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Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post
Well, since you put it that way,



Sorry, insatiable need to be an ass, overtook me.
I've done that so many times, you'd think I'd get it right by now.
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Old 09-08-2010, 11:16 PM   #50
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Default Re: Ground Zero mosque

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firestormalpha View Post
The definition of a word is the definition of a word.
Islam is derived from the Arabic root "Salema": peace, purity, submission and obedience. In the religious sense, Islam means submission to the will of God and obedience to His law.


[Arabic 'islām, submission, from 'aslama, to surrender, resign oneself, from Syriac 'ašlem, to make peace, surrender, derived stem of šlem, to be complete.]
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