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Old 10-02-2000, 03:57 AM   #1
Huntress
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I actaually traded in BG2 for this game, for some reason BG2 just didn't grab me. It's strange because Icewind Dale did (probably because I could create my own party).

Oh well, with regards to this game, my opinion is that it's a fantastic game in need
of a patch and soon.

It's fantastic in that it's immersive in a sense that's difficult to define. I like the first person aspect and frankly I've no idea who on earth could complain about the interface? I installed the game, created my party and bought my gear without barely glancing at the manual much less being confused by the interface. The interface is fine, don't muck it up.

With regadrs to the D3D aspect, my vid card is only 4 megs so it's really much ado about nothing for me at least. I like the graphics as they are.

My beef is with the pathing problems I encountered and many others as well in Frog Village. You get those things in your way and there is no way you'll talk to the shaman. They don't move, they just block. Pure obstruction of my gameplay and that of many others. In a nutshell, patch it.

I'm also a little concered about the difficulty of the quests, I've not yet finished the Crypt because of some problems with an inferno room and a gate that crashes down upon approach. The crypt is the first quest and it's riddled with bizarre puzzles.
I tend to think puzzles belong in adventure games, if I wanted puzzles I'd have purchased tomb raider. I really hope they don't get any worse than the crypt or this game will have to go back to the store sadly.

Patch the pathing and layoff on the cock-a-mamee puzzles and this game is a sure fire "Game of the Year".

Best,

The Huntress
 
Old 10-02-2000, 04:39 AM   #2
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This is a role-playing game, and puzzles are therefore as welcome here as in an adventure game. Sadly, too many role-playing games in recent years have lacked puzzles and therefore any depth.

You don't want puzzles? Buy a 3D shootem-up. Any Quake-style action fest will do.


Looks like you're right on the need for a patch tho', the game is looking increasingly flaky as more people get hold of it and report their problems. I have only left the village with a trial character to see what the world looks like and already its crashed on me and suffered graphical glitches.

Oh for a return to the days when beta-testing was done before a game was released and not afterwards. The internet with its messageboards and downloadable patches has a lot to answer for....
Loremaster
 
Old 10-02-2000, 06:45 AM   #3
Huntress
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Hi LoreMaster,

I agree and disagree with you on the puzzle bit. Sure puzzles are a part of RPG's but an over abundance of them creates tedium and frustration.
I'm not going to bite at your action/shooter comment as it's not my style.

I will say this, depth is derived from character interaction and a solid story. Certainly not from trying to figure out where the heck gadget A is supposed to fit into gadget B all the way across the burning abyss. These puzzles are wearisome.

Be Good You!

The Huntress
 
Old 10-02-2000, 09:37 AM   #4
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Hi Huntress,

Thanks for the reply. I can't speak for the abundance of puzzles seeing as I'm having trouble running the game past the opening village, and maybe my frustration at the flakiness of this untested and over-delayed game sharpened my tongue in my previous post - my apologies anyway, bad manners can sometimes be explained but never excused

Lets hope I get to experience some of those darned puzzles! Otherwise its off to Baldur's Gate 2 until about the 3rd patch by which time the game may be fully playable - whoops, there goes my tongue again hehe!

Regards

Loremaster
 
Old 10-02-2000, 06:23 PM   #5
Philip
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If you've ever played any Wizardry games, you would know that abstruse puzzles are part and parcel of D. W. Bradley's creations. Yes, they can be frustrating, especially if they hold up advancing thru the game. At least now we have these bulletin boards so we can ask some of our more clever friends how they solved something.
 
Old 10-02-2000, 07:33 PM   #6
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Huntress:

I think you are what I refer to as a "Casual RPG fan". Meaning, quite simply, you just fell into this genre without LEARNING it, and appreciating it. This would explain your strange opinion of BG2. You never grew up playing the SSI Goldbox games on your C64, so you feel no connection with those games...or, more then likely, you just couldn't handle the difficulty.
I liked Icewind Dale as well, ( http://www.cyberenet.net/~spvega/images/allstars.jpg ) but I prefer the game giving me "unique" party members, rather then making my own. After all, anyone can roll up some cheesy 18/00 strength fighters with 18 dexterity and plow through the game..but only a truly talented player can get Yoshimo, Mazzy, and Valygar through the game with their base statistics. I found Icewind Dale to be WAAAAAAY too easy, and Belhifet was a total wuss. Heck, the two Iron Golems in his room were tougher then he was. Just cast Defensive Harmony, Haste, and beat him into oblivion. Hmmm...Sounds like the strategy I used for Sarevok as well...gosh, who woulda thunk it?

Anyway, now that my flame is done,

My own impressions of W&W are far more valid, since I actually WRITE for a major gaming magazine and website for a living, and thusly, what I say comes from an RPG veteran, not a doped-up 16 year old.

W&W is fun in the same way Wizardry Gold was. It's a throwback to the old 3D dungeon romps I grew up with. Games like Dungeon Master 2: Skullkeep, Eye of the Beholder, And Ultima Underworld all come to mind when I first saw the game playing on my PC. And like those games, it's fun....but confusing without a guide or a detailed map. Unlike "serious" CRPGs like BG2...ahem....W&W makes itself challenging by causing frustration, rather then making an enemy tough. So instead of having to use strategy to fight an end boss like you would in a serious modern RPG, W&W instead forces you to trudge through puzzle-infested dungeons that make no sense that offer the gamer no clues as to where to go or what to do to reach the end.

I never finished Wizardry 6 or 7, and I see that W&W will suffer the same fate as well.

Good games that could have been better if they were less frustrating.

http://www.cyberenet.net/~spvega

The God of Gaming Hath Spoken.
 
Old 10-02-2000, 07:56 PM   #7
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I grew up on the SSI gold boxe series, and I actually returned BG2 after playing it for a couple days for this. I found it tedious moving everyone around, I like the first person view, and I agree that the pathing problems are a nasty bug and can really hurt your experience. BG2 was just too clunky or something, but that's just my personal opinion, I'm not a big fan of the infinity engine.
Some of the quests are hokey, but for the most part bearable. I guess the best part of RPG's for me is the character creation, where you can build a party or character exaclty how you want them. This game offers TONS of options, and I love it for that. It's back to the 'old school' style (getting sick of that prase yet? ) only with great voice acting.
I disagree that W+W is is difficult because of the quests though. You don't have to do any of the guild quests, or mayor quests, just the main ones. I'm only up to the temple, but so far, the only quest that I have required is find the Mavin sword.






----------- SPOILER -------------------------
So far, just find the signet ring.
Go see the oracles in the cave.
Find the remains of the previous fallen hero.




You can skip everything else if you want, so if it's difficult, it's because you want to do everything, which should be difficult.
I think that most games take the easy way out and just put in a difficult boss character rather than take the time to create intricate sub quests and interesting NPC's.

I love the game so far, and it desparately needs a patch. This game totally reminds me of Bard's tale 1 and 2 and Wizardry 1-3 rolled into one.

Just my 2cents

-Drex
 
Old 10-02-2000, 09:45 PM   #8
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Well, it's ironic that you traded in BG2 for W&W and then complain about "cock-a-mamee" puzzles... because there ain't none in BG2; just solid, long, in-depth quests that are puzzle-like, but certainly make sense. A big difference from flipping switches and pushing buttons.
 
Old 10-03-2000, 09:05 AM   #9
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Puzzles in RPGs should help move the plot or action along -- not the opposite. Playing a game should be enjoyable, not an exercise in frustration. I should not have to spend an hour clicking on torches and out-of-place objects in a dungeon just to open one door. A game should offer a retreat -- it should not remind me of the frustrating things I'm trying to take a break from.

This is exactly the reason I avoid adventure games. Having to use the magical spoon on the porridge of fate before taking it to Gilbert the Goblin on the second Tuesday after a full moon is not something I want to do in my spare time. RPGs should be about character development/interaction, plot, and action, not bizarre puzzles.

So far the puzzles look a little more difficult in W&W than I care for. No problem, though, that's where sites and forums can help.
 
Old 10-04-2000, 12:21 AM   #10
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Hey OldFart. Please tell me your name and what mag/sites you review for... so I never again have to put up with such anal retentive, self righteous bullshit.

I grew up writing my own FRPGs on my Vic-20. But I'd never put someone down the way you did.

That's in very bad taste, and insulting to the rest of us OldFarts.
 
 


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