We've failed at the border for years, why throw away more good money?

[Felix The Assassin]

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/new...ration-reform/

[SpiritWarrior]

Cuz Fox News told us to.

[Lord of Alcohol]

We should be sending them back by the boxcar load and be laying minefields at the border. Thats 12 million jobs they are taking.

[Felix The Assassin]

Originally Posted by Lord of Alcohol We should be sending them back by the boxcar load and be laying minefields at the border. Thats 12 million jobs they are taking.

And not paying taxes on, and can't be found when/if needed. A lose/lose situation all the way around.

[Lord of Alcohol]

Originally Posted by Felix The Assassin And not paying taxes on, and can't be found when/if needed. A lose/lose situation all the way around.

Agreed, anyone who thinks they are all paying taxes is on crack. I know how the construction industry works. First to admit some of my pay is "under the table" but I can assure about 95% of theirs is.

[Felix The Assassin]

Originally Posted by Lord of Alcohol Agreed, anyone who thinks they are all paying taxes is on crack. I know how the construction industry works. First to admit some of my pay is "under the table" but I can assure about 95% of theirs is.

What hurts the most 'round here is: Skilled (masons) labor is under-cut by rogue builders who bring in 2 dozen "migrant laborers" who can do the job in 1/2 the time and less the cost.

Sadly people wonder why their mortar is cracking after 3-5 years.

Worst of all, the flipping "inspectors" who are suppose to be "inspecting" never "inspect" during the task, only after! Knowing how cash strapped the state is, I really wonder what the value is of the building inspectors in this area.

[Cerek]

I believe I suggested two years ago (during the Obama Care discussions) that Obama's "solution" to illegal immigrants would simply be to naturalize them and make them legal, thus rewarding them for the tenacity to remain here illegally for as long as it took to become a citizen. Now he has shown this was his intention all along. I admit it is the most expedient and least expensive option, but I'm not sure it is the best solution.

[ElfBane]

I've had this rant before, but here goes;
No one (read Republican) wants to punish the EMPLOYERS. But then they bitch about Illegals!!! Florida just finished up its annual legislative session. Many of our legislators campaigned on the Illegals Issue... here's what happened (click the link)
http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbc...=2011105100309

So here's the REAL issue... Repugnantcans want to end Illegals... Damnocrats want a system that ID's you (E-Verify, a quasi-national ID system),,, so why can't a deal be reached? Outright corruption, that's why.

[SpiritWarrior]

They need to just make Mexico a state, the end, borders secure. Good luck finding Americans who want to be fruit pickers though.

[Olorin]

Originally Posted by Cerek I believe I suggested two years ago (during the Obama Care discussions) that Obama's "solution" to illegal immigrants would simply be to naturalize them and make them legal, thus rewarding them for the tenacity to remain here illegally for as long as it took to become a citizen. Now he has shown this was his intention all along. I admit it is the most expedient and least expensive option, but I'm not sure it is the best solution.

The reason that naturalization is not a good solution is it would only work to encourage MORE illegal immigration afterwards. Reagan did the whole amnesty thing once already, and rather than fixing illegal immigration, it only increased the rate of it, as now more people thought if they snuck in, and stuck around long enough, they'd eventually get citizenship.

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior They need to just make Mexico a state, the end, borders secure. Good luck finding Americans who want to be fruit pickers though.

Making Mexico a state would only push the border problem to the southern border of Mexico. If we were willing to follow Mexico's policy of using the army to keep Central Americans from crossing the border, maybe fewer people would cross though.

As for the whole "Americans won't do ____ job" argument, I personally think it's BS. Our current situation is really "Americans won't do ____ job for the same pay and working conditions that illegals will." This is also why naturalization/amnesty won't work. If you give amnesty to the current illegals, they become recognized immigrants/citizens. Suddenly they can report unsafe working conditions to OSHA without getting deported for their trouble. They can file complaints with labor boards if they are getting paid less than minimum wage, etc. The whole reason employers are using illegals is because they are cheap labor who can't complain. As soon as fresh illegals cross the border, those employers are going to dump their newly minted citizens in favor of the illegals. The net result of amnesty is that 90% of the current illegals will lose their current jobs within a few years, and have to compete for the jobs that "Americans are willing" to do because of their legal status.

The only real solution is to first take on the employers. Companies using cheap illegal labor should feel it in the pocketbook (massive fines), while the upper management should find themselves in jail. Illegals who report unsafe conditions/below min. wage pay should still be sent back to their home country, but not until the case is settled and they have a nice fat check in their hand. Companies that are found to be under-paying workers should have to pay back pay to all those they underpaid, with the caveat that picking up your check is done at the border on your way home. If we actually got serious about taking down employers using illegals, employers would clean up their shops, illegal jobs would dry up, and a lot of the illegals would self-deport when the jobs disappeared. Then we'd have 12 million jobs open, now paying decent wages, which the unemployed can use, and we can also open up our legal immigration limits if more labor is needed--but perhaps in a way that is fair to the rest of the world, rather than letting Mexico have the big advantage in the illegal immigration market just because of geography.