An evil pc ?

Ramon de Ramon y Ramon · 07-11-2001, 07:03 PM

Possible spoilers, especiallly about alternative paths to take in quests, in BG I and BG II !

After not having played for three months I've decided to create a new pc and take him all the way from BG I over TotSC, DSotSC and SoA to ToB.

So far I have always played heroic pc/parties and for me that will always be my "natural" choice, but nevertheless this time I am seriously considering playing an evil pc as I've heard that it is a great challenge and makes for an entirely different game. But I have still serious doubts if that can be true and if the general layout of the game allows for a gaming experience as rewarding with an evil pc as with a good pc:

- isn't the general plotline too much set up as the clasical confrontation between good (you) and evil ( Sarevok, Irenicus, whatever foes, I suppose various other Bhaal spawns, you face in ToB)

- and isn't too much of the main suspense coming from your personal battle against your evil heritage, against giving in to the call of your blood ?

- why should I fight Sarevok if I am as evil as he is and not simply join forces with him ? (Okay, I could of course strive to have ALL the power for myself).

- are there enough viable plot options, both in the side quests and the main plotline for evil-doers to make the gaming experience really entirely different ?
- does the advantage of being able to steal whatever you can get away with really offset the disadvantage of having to pay twice as much when you pay due to your bad reputation ? And how dangerous and calculable is relying on habitual stealing ? I gonna strive for divinity - spending most of my time running away from town guards doesn't fit too well into that plan !

If I choose the evil path I'll probably play it along the lines of Sarevok: a superintelligent schemer/plotter/intrigant who knows only too well that his evil
deeds and goals are most efficiently and easily accomplished by keeping the disguise of being a respectable and even benevolent citizen as long as and whenever possible. That would of course enable me to choose the "good path" in many side quests.

But still the key question from above remains: are there enough interesting and viable "evil" options in the main plotline to provide for a rewarding new gaming experience ? Without spoiling me too much could you please explain from your experiences with playing an evil party how you played at critical points of the plot and why you chose the options you did from a roleplaying point of view. (example: with a evil party in BG II what did you do with the Silver dragon quest ? Did you kill her after returning the eggs or did you just betray her already before that or did you just choose the good path at that point because it seemed to be the safest way back out of the Underdark ? )

Also, what would be a good alignment for a pc as I described him above ? Surely not chaotic evil, rather lawful evil or neutral evil ?

Thanks in advance for your inputs !

------------------
So long !

R³ - proud to be the official spokesman for the most noble Lady Bilqis, Desert Rose of Ironworks

Btw, the cow is queuing in the slaughterhouse right now !

[This message has been edited by Ramon de Ramon y Ramon (edited 07-11-2001).]

jabidas · 07-11-2001, 08:30 PM

Ok Ill attempt to address the points you made.

The plot cant be that varied the game has a begining and an end( all though ToB has a good and a bad ending so at last closure.)

Well it could be your struggle to gain control of the taint.

You want to fight Sarevok because he wants your rightful power and hes tried to kill you.

There are some differences like poisining druids and selling dragon eggs to a demon, oh and killing hendak for lenithan. others I forget but there is an evil way to do everything if you look hard enough.

------------------

sep257 · 07-12-2001, 01:32 AM

ive only played an evil party in SoA...and IMHO, evil chars are stronger than good ones...maybe its just my mindset, who knows... besides.. nothing is better than dragging that annoying npc into your party, abandoning them, then wasting them. hehehe who needs rep points when youre rich and powerful? hehehe

Lifetime · 07-12-2001, 03:16 AM

While evil characters are hard to play in the game, they make for better role playing, and break out of the mold that the designers set for good characters. Being evil in itself already gives you special twists and options in the game, and while often less rewarding, are more fun and diverting. It gives you an excuse to choose all the fun, evil options. And a reputation might be justified as you said, by putting up a front and concealing evil within yourself.
In addition, you'll find that for every good guy stereotype class, like lawful fighters and wizards and clerics, there ARE badguy counters, like evil necromancers, assassins, twisted clerics, bruisers, fallen paladins and such, so it gives you the opportunity to be the bad guy. Its often easy to imagine character classes for the heroes in movies and books, but we hardly think about what character classes would best fit the bad guys. If you did look carefully, you'd find that they divide equally as well into the different classes, making for lots of fun playing both sides of the coin.

------------------
Why?

Luther · 07-12-2001, 08:37 AM

If your reputation does drop to a level where the guards are constantly on your ass then simply donate some money to the church to get it back up to a reasonable level (bribing the authorities so to speak). This takes care of the nagging repercussions of evil doings. I personally don't play evil myself (I agree with most of what you have to say about playing evil, it's just not all that sound a career-path), but i can see how one could and would play it if one so desired. Unfortunately BG and BG2 do not give you the option of lying in dialogue like Planescape:Torment does, in doing that it gives you an opportunity to be really evil at heart but conveying a guise of benevolence. Ah well, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

AngelofDeath · 07-12-2001, 09:11 AM

Look at this thread, memnoch posted a great link!! That should help you.

All Hail Memnoch

DonkeyWan · 07-12-2001, 09:21 AM

Evil can be played as part of the main thread in SoA, less so for BG1. For example, in SoA, You hunt Irenicus for revenge not recue (this way lies the path of the dark force luke) saying that, it is very difficult to remain in character, when your bad. Its fun and funny at first, but as you play along and get into the game, it really is hard to do bad things to characters that seem so real (credit the programmers. You'll find that what limits your gameplaying isn't the plot, but your own natural predisposition to do good. (we all want to be heroes (heroines) not villains. As such, playing bad characters is a very different experience and not always rewarding. For example, it sometimes is a relief to be able to kill off that irksome character in a straightforward manner (no attempts at redemption etc.). However, in one particular scenario, I tried to play in character by extorting gold from poor citizens... I felt like a slime.... not good. I would say its worth doing, if only to see the other side of the playing experience (always being good can be stale, remember this is fantasy after all).

Ramon de Ramon y Ramon · 07-12-2001, 03:25 PM

Thank you all very much for your inputs !

Angie

, thanks, that thread was really helpful. I had already read that guide once at the time when Memnoch had first posted the link, but had completely forgotten about it.

And, IMHO, we should not only hail His Memnificence, we should outright worship him - I, at least, have been doing so for many months now ...

------------------
So long !

R³ - proud to be the official spokesman for the most noble Lady Bilqis, Desert Rose of Ironworks

Btw, the cow is queuing in the slaughterhouse right now !

Ramon de Ramon y Ramon · 07-13-2001, 07:27 AM

Bumping as I am still interested in more input from more people.

In particular, I would be interested in "Ten Golden Rules for Smart Thieving" since I have refrained completely from stealing for roleplaying reasons so far, thus am lacking any kind of experience in this area.

------------------
So long !

R³ - proud to be the official spokesman for the most noble Lady Bilqis, Desert Rose of Ironworks

Btw, the cow is queuing in the slaughterhouse right now !

AngelofDeath · 07-13-2001, 08:15 AM

Ramon, I'll have you know that last night I started an evil party, all because of this thread. I'm going to look for help here also< hope that's ok?

What party should I put behind a Chaotic Evil Sorcerer?

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07-11-2001, 07:03 PM	#1
Ramon de Ramon y Ramon Red Dragon Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Cologne, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany Age: 52 Posts: 1,517	Possible spoilers, especiallly about alternative paths to take in quests, in BG I and BG II ! After not having played for three months I've decided to create a new pc and take him all the way from BG I over TotSC, DSotSC and SoA to ToB. So far I have always played heroic pc/parties and for me that will always be my "natural" choice, but nevertheless this time I am seriously considering playing an evil pc as I've heard that it is a great challenge and makes for an entirely different game. But I have still serious doubts if that can be true and if the general layout of the game allows for a gaming experience as rewarding with an evil pc as with a good pc: - isn't the general plotline too much set up as the clasical confrontation between good (you) and evil ( Sarevok, Irenicus, whatever foes, I suppose various other Bhaal spawns, you face in ToB) - and isn't too much of the main suspense coming from your personal battle against your evil heritage, against giving in to the call of your blood ? - why should I fight Sarevok if I am as evil as he is and not simply join forces with him ? (Okay, I could of course strive to have ALL the power for myself). - are there enough viable plot options, both in the side quests and the main plotline for evil-doers to make the gaming experience really entirely different ? - does the advantage of being able to steal whatever you can get away with really offset the disadvantage of having to pay twice as much when you pay due to your bad reputation ? And how dangerous and calculable is relying on habitual stealing ? I gonna strive for divinity - spending most of my time running away from town guards doesn't fit too well into that plan ! If I choose the evil path I'll probably play it along the lines of Sarevok: a superintelligent schemer/plotter/intrigant who knows only too well that his evil deeds and goals are most efficiently and easily accomplished by keeping the disguise of being a respectable and even benevolent citizen as long as and whenever possible. That would of course enable me to choose the "good path" in many side quests. But still the key question from above remains: are there enough interesting and viable "evil" options in the main plotline to provide for a rewarding new gaming experience ? Without spoiling me too much could you please explain from your experiences with playing an evil party how you played at critical points of the plot and why you chose the options you did from a roleplaying point of view. (example: with a evil party in BG II what did you do with the Silver dragon quest ? Did you kill her after returning the eggs or did you just betray her already before that or did you just choose the good path at that point because it seemed to be the safest way back out of the Underdark ? ) Also, what would be a good alignment for a pc as I described him above ? Surely not chaotic evil, rather lawful evil or neutral evil ? Thanks in advance for your inputs ! ------------------ So long ! R³ - proud to be the official spokesman for the most noble Lady Bilqis, Desert Rose of Ironworks Btw, the cow is queuing in the slaughterhouse right now ! [This message has been edited by Ramon de Ramon y Ramon (edited 07-11-2001).]

07-11-2001, 08:30 PM	#2
jabidas Silver Dragon Join Date: March 14, 2001 Location: Agharti. Mountains of Madness Posts: 1,673	Ok Ill attempt to address the points you made. The plot cant be that varied the game has a begining and an end( all though ToB has a good and a bad ending so at last closure.) Well it could be your struggle to gain control of the taint. You want to fight Sarevok because he wants your rightful power and hes tried to kill you. There are some differences like poisining druids and selling dragon eggs to a demon, oh and killing hendak for lenithan. others I forget but there is an evil way to do everything if you look hard enough. ------------------

07-12-2001, 01:32 AM	#3
sep257 Dungeon Master Join Date: May 26, 2001 Location: Buckeye Central--OHIO Age: 46 Posts: 68	ive only played an evil party in SoA...and IMHO, evil chars are stronger than good ones...maybe its just my mindset, who knows... besides.. nothing is better than dragging that annoying npc into your party, abandoning them, then wasting them. hehehe who needs rep points when youre rich and powerful? hehehe

07-12-2001, 03:16 AM	#4
Lifetime Red Dragon Join Date: March 3, 2001 Location: Scotch College, Melbourne Posts: 1,503	While evil characters are hard to play in the game, they make for better role playing, and break out of the mold that the designers set for good characters. Being evil in itself already gives you special twists and options in the game, and while often less rewarding, are more fun and diverting. It gives you an excuse to choose all the fun, evil options. And a reputation might be justified as you said, by putting up a front and concealing evil within yourself. In addition, you'll find that for every good guy stereotype class, like lawful fighters and wizards and clerics, there ARE badguy counters, like evil necromancers, assassins, twisted clerics, bruisers, fallen paladins and such, so it gives you the opportunity to be the bad guy. Its often easy to imagine character classes for the heroes in movies and books, but we hardly think about what character classes would best fit the bad guys. If you did look carefully, you'd find that they divide equally as well into the different classes, making for lots of fun playing both sides of the coin. ------------------ Why?

07-12-2001, 08:37 AM	#5
Luther Manshoon Join Date: July 11, 2001 Location: Dae Han Min Guk Age: 41 Posts: 185	If your reputation does drop to a level where the guards are constantly on your ass then simply donate some money to the church to get it back up to a reasonable level (bribing the authorities so to speak). This takes care of the nagging repercussions of evil doings. I personally don't play evil myself (I agree with most of what you have to say about playing evil, it's just not all that sound a career-path), but i can see how one could and would play it if one so desired. Unfortunately BG and BG2 do not give you the option of lying in dialogue like Planescape:Torment does, in doing that it gives you an opportunity to be really evil at heart but conveying a guise of benevolence. Ah well, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

07-12-2001, 09:11 AM	#6
AngelofDeath Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: June 11, 2001 Location: Wherever the road takes me..... Age: 53 Posts: 609	Look at this thread, memnoch posted a great link!! That should help you. All Hail Memnoch

07-12-2001, 09:21 AM	#7
DonkeyWan Drow Warrior Join Date: May 4, 2001 Location: Ireland Posts: 299	Evil can be played as part of the main thread in SoA, less so for BG1. For example, in SoA, You hunt Irenicus for revenge not recue (this way lies the path of the dark force luke) saying that, it is very difficult to remain in character, when your bad. Its fun and funny at first, but as you play along and get into the game, it really is hard to do bad things to characters that seem so real (credit the programmers. You'll find that what limits your gameplaying isn't the plot, but your own natural predisposition to do good. (we all want to be heroes (heroines) not villains. As such, playing bad characters is a very different experience and not always rewarding. For example, it sometimes is a relief to be able to kill off that irksome character in a straightforward manner (no attempts at redemption etc.). However, in one particular scenario, I tried to play in character by extorting gold from poor citizens... I felt like a slime.... not good. I would say its worth doing, if only to see the other side of the playing experience (always being good can be stale, remember this is fantasy after all).

07-12-2001, 03:25 PM	#8
Ramon de Ramon y Ramon Red Dragon Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Cologne, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany Age: 52 Posts: 1,517	Thank you all very much for your inputs ! Angie , thanks, that thread was really helpful. I had already read that guide once at the time when Memnoch had first posted the link, but had completely forgotten about it. And, IMHO, we should not only hail His Memnificence, we should outright worship him - I, at least, have been doing so for many months now ... ------------------ So long ! R³ - proud to be the official spokesman for the most noble Lady Bilqis, Desert Rose of Ironworks Btw, the cow is queuing in the slaughterhouse right now !

07-13-2001, 07:27 AM	#9
Ramon de Ramon y Ramon Red Dragon Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Cologne, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany Age: 52 Posts: 1,517	Bumping as I am still interested in more input from more people. In particular, I would be interested in "Ten Golden Rules for Smart Thieving" since I have refrained completely from stealing for roleplaying reasons so far, thus am lacking any kind of experience in this area. ------------------ So long ! R³ - proud to be the official spokesman for the most noble Lady Bilqis, Desert Rose of Ironworks Btw, the cow is queuing in the slaughterhouse right now !

07-13-2001, 08:15 AM	#10
AngelofDeath Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: June 11, 2001 Location: Wherever the road takes me..... Age: 53 Posts: 609	Ramon, I'll have you know that last night I started an evil party, all because of this thread. I'm going to look for help here also< hope that's ok? What party should I put behind a Chaotic Evil Sorcerer?

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