NWN vs. BG series

[TaSSaDaR]

Most of you guys, I believe, had played BG series before coming to NWN. Some of you even continue to play BG. So here comes my question - what do you people prefer - BG of NWN (official compaign)? And why, of course [img]smile.gif[/img]

Myself I like BG (I and II) more. Of course, NWN has better graphics, it uses more recent rules, it is more convinient in some ways (i.e. henchman following you automaticly), but still BG series beat NWN OC in questions of story, general game interest and on a phantom aspect of 'playability' (as I call it myself).

And what do you think?

[ 04-11-2003, 06:35 AM: Message edited by: TaSSaDaR ]

[Kaltia]

There really is no comparison-NWN was designed for the mod opportunities, BG series was designed for the story. It would be unfair to compair the two in that way [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Legolas]

NWN is about the toolset. The OC is just an example.
The BG series is about the game. It has the better plot, more interesting items, more hourse of gameplay etc. Plus, it uses 2e rules which I prefer over 3e (and so far I've also prefered 2D over 3D, as it allows for more atmospheric areas. This'll probably change in a few years when the BG2 graphics are outdated and 3D games look even better).

Basically, there's really no comparison (*is quick to agree with Kat*). BG is the better game. NWN is the better toolset. Although NWN is a better game than BG is a toolset [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[TaSSaDaR]

And are there any NWN mods that beat BG II??

About the toolset - I was really dissapointed with the small number of settings (area types) NWN offered. Remember BG? Firkraag's ruins, Bodhi's crypts, Athkatla vs. Trademeet (and thats only SoA [img]smile.gif[/img] ) I understand that in future the developers will surely add more and more area types into the toolset, but look at it from user's point of view:

[USER]
I have bought a game and I want it to be playable and interesting. Now you say that I've bought only a toolset, and offer to download some 3rd party MODs as an alternative. I want my money back !!!
[/USER]

Of course, i dont think like this, but after BG II, I was expecting a much better game. EVEN the OC. In fact, especially the OC!

[ 04-11-2003, 07:58 AM: Message edited by: TaSSaDaR ]

[Legolas]

No, I don't think there's a mod out there which beats the BG series.
The problem is that you can't very well make a single module the size of BG1 and 2 together, both because you are working in a toolset you didn't create, which does have some kinds of limitation despite the hakpacks, and because that file would be so incredibly large putting it on the internet/downloading it is a pain for everyone, and the loading times reach disastrous levels. Of course, you can get around the latter of the problems by dividing the module into several smaller ones.
In any case, creating it would take many, many hours and equally many megabytes. There's a reason the BG series comes on nine (elven counting TOTSC and ToB) CDs...

But, there are a lot of mods out there which, together, give NWN more gameplay hours, more action, more interesting plot twists, more of a challenge etc. than the series posesses.

[TaSSaDaR]

And what if BioWare released a full-scale BG-beating mod sequence on CDs?? Even 5 or 6 (maybe even more) CDs for such a game will not be a problem to afford. But I doubt they will ever do this.

[Kaltia]

Of course not! NWN is for making mods, for variety, not one long ("250 real life hours"-PC Gamer's "Lifespan" review for BG2) mod

[SpiritWarrior]

I do *love* the fact that NWN's is 3d. Everything else aside, NWN's allows you to rotate and view your very own character in 3d, shiny armor and all with nothing but pride and this, is priceless. You had tiny paper-dolls in BG whose faces you couldn't even see. Really I hated that.

But I have to agree with 'Leggy' about the differance in atmosphere.
Maybe it's the fact that I hadn't played enough of these games at the time or maybe I was so heavily into 2E AD&D or maybe it had something to do with the shiny things on my ceiling (?) but in NWN's there was something missing. A magic, a sense of mystery and awe that I got with playing the BG games was no longer there and I never found it again :/

[karlosovic]

I havent had NWN very long and Im only near the end of Ch.2 of the OC. Ive also played a LOT of BG1 and about 10 times more BG2.

From my point of view, BG is better for 1 reason. The Party
Sure BG has a better plot than NWN OC, but NWN can be played multiplayer or you can make your own modules and scripts, so that doesnt compare. both 2D and 3D graphics have their advantages and disadvantages (I'm currently in love with multiple, independent real-time character shaddows). 2nd Ed Vs 3rd Ed rules... pfff. Both have their moments, I wasnt fussed on 3rd Ed to start with but it's growing on me.

No, the real difference (for me) is the party. The henchman sucks. I'm sorry, but it does. There's no dialogue, no interaction. She keeps running up for melee when she should cast spells. I cant make her change between ranged or melee combat once we're fighting. I cant tell her when to use buffing spells, nevermind which ones. I spend half my time running back to the temple because she did something stupid and died. The orders are just toooooo limited. There's also only one of her, so no tactics. Every fight has to be approached in pretty much the same way.

Balders Gate has it all over NWN because you can do different things. Apart from multiclassing your character, you're largely stuck with 1 way of doing anything. Im playing a human barbarian, and Ive dualed her to thief for a bit of versatility. With the cleric henchman along, Ive got a little bit more tank, and some sporadic healing (and she keeps trying to turn-undead on skeleton warriors... who dont care in the slightest)

that being said... Im definately enjoying the experince, but I dont think I will be playing single player again after I finish the OC (which means, unless I can find some people to play multiplayer with, I wont play it again ever)

[Nerull]

Originally posted by karlosovic: I havent had NWN very long and Im only near the end of Ch.2 of the OC. Ive also played a LOT of BG1 and about 10 times more BG2. From my point of view, BG is better for 1 reason. The Party Sure BG has a better plot than NWN OC, but NWN can be played multiplayer or you can make your own modules and scripts, so that doesnt compare. both 2D and 3D graphics have their advantages and disadvantages (I'm currently in love with multiple, independent real-time character shaddows). 2nd Ed Vs 3rd Ed rules... pfff. Both have their moments, I wasnt fussed on 3rd Ed to start with but it's growing on me. No, the real difference (for me) is the party. The henchman sucks. I'm sorry, but it does. There's no dialogue, no interaction. She keeps running up for melee when she should cast spells. I cant make her change between ranged or melee combat once we're fighting. I cant tell her when to use buffing spells, nevermind which ones. I spend half my time running back to the temple because she did something stupid and died. The orders are just toooooo limited. There's also only one of her, so no tactics. Every fight has to be approached in pretty much the same way. Balders Gate has it all over NWN because you can do different things. Apart from multiclassing your character, you're largely stuck with 1 way of doing anything. Im playing a human barbarian, and Ive dualed her to thief for a bit of versatility. With the cleric henchman along, Ive got a little bit more tank, and some sporadic healing (and she keeps trying to turn-undead on skeleton warriors... who dont care in the slightest) that being said... Im definately enjoying the experince, but I dont think I will be playing single player again after I finish the OC (which means, unless I can find some people to play multiplayer with, I wont play it again ever)

There is a mod out there that allows you to speak to the henchman and set "ground rules" on the use of their abilities (use ranged weapons until enemy gets within X distance, identify my items right now, cast spells only on the toughest opponents we face, etc.). In effect, allows you to change their scripting. Also lets you manage their inventory, and it allows you to change what your familiar does, too. I don't rightly remember where I downloaded it from, but makes things much more playable.