The Penal Principle - Page 2

antryg · 10-29-2002, 04:27 PM

Steve Martin was right "The death penalty for parking tickets."
However he didn't go far enough; I think we should escalate the penalty from there.

10-29-2002, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
Do they sterilize the needles? Don't all needles come sterilized and disposable these days because it's cheaper and screw the enviro?

Your right, my wording was a bit off, the needles are pre-sterilized as part of the mass produciton, but they swab the area to be punctured with an alchohol/betedyne solution to prevent infection.

Some times I really think there is no such thing as "common sense" [img]smile.gif[/img]

10-29-2002, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pritchke:
This was already done before. It is called Australia! This is were the British used to load all their unwanted criminals. Now it is a well respected country.
Hmm! Maybe that is your point!

Ahh yes, but they made a couple of fatal flaws with Australia. 1. The place is waaay to beautiful and nice a place to use for such a thing.

2. it is way too big for such a use.

3. they didnt just drop the prisoners on the beach and go away

4. somehow the prisoners were provided with things like tools and food etc.

There are a number of Atols the french used to use down that way, that are far more perfect for a penile...penal ...don't want to say colony....penal err dumping ground [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 10-29-2002, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

khazadman · 10-29-2002, 04:39 PM

The English were notorious for sending prisoners to all it's colonies, not just Australia.

Timber Loftis · 10-29-2002, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by khazadman:
The English were notorious for sending prisoners to all it's colonies, not just Australia.

Georgia comes to mind, and I don't mean the one in the former USSR.

Charean · 10-29-2002, 05:40 PM

Yes, indeedy... that would explain a few things... like Bubba and his 12 cars on blocks in the front yard!! LOL

I just saw this and had to post. These guys are interesting, and hysterical on Car Talk (NPR in the States.)

My source for silliness is here:
http://cartalk.cars.com/time-kill/

and their website is:
http://cartalk.cars.com/

But they do have a rant and rave section... and they are in Massachusetts.

The Hunter of Jahanna · 10-29-2002, 08:33 PM

Here is an idea that hasnt been tried yet.Why not put prisoners on decomissioned and inoperable war ships. I know when I was in the Navy that every American warship had its own water desalination facility,kitchen,bowling alley,power plant, and Mc Donalds. We can put the ships in the middle of the ocean,Anchor them,remove the propeller that makes the ship move,and take off all of the life vests and rafts. As long as the criminals could make clean water and elecricity , and have a way to catch food, you would have a perfect prison. Escape would mean certain death in the ocean, Navy ships are nearly unsinkable by JUST the weather, and it isnt our fault if the lazy convicts dont make water or catch food. We can just drop them off and forget about them.

Lifetime · 10-30-2002, 12:48 AM

As other people already mentioned, the first thing I thought when I read this was "thats what Australia is for!" or was, in any case, but its been tried before. Societies eventually make up their own rules, their own culture that goes through a refining process the longer it persists. Pretty soon you'll turn another isolated spot in the world into another first-world country. Its not a new idea. Its been done in countless games (Rebel Moon Rising, Red Faction, and other we'll send you away games, to name a few), movies (Soldier, the Escape movies, etc..) and somehow, the idea hasnt caught on. Maybe the possible risks, the space, the cost in setting up such an area have made it about as attractive as the plague. Its like concentration camps all over again. What better will we be than Stalin or Hitler? Hitler himself made prisoners dig and build their own accomodation at Auschwitz, made them survive without even bare essentials like sanitation. Its like the place of no return, literally. What about innocents? Pregnant women? Mistaken identities, people with true potential to reform? I've visited prisons, and spoken to prisoners, and I'll tell you that these convicts are people too. There is hope for many of them, even though some you wouldnt want to trust with a plastic knife. Do convicts immediately stop being human? What about teen offenders, who have a whole life to mature and to grow up and to leave their sins behind? Its a good idea, but morally flawed. An uncompromising, single-solution system is inherently vulnerable to inevitable fatal flaws and terrible mistakes.

Redblueflare · 10-30-2002, 01:37 AM

Lifetime I see your point but if you ask me the judicial system is pretty much messed up the way it is. What gives a group of people the right to judge your fate? How many times has a person been *proven* guilty just be released later because new evidence showed he was innocent? You could really be innocent and your lawyer just didn't do that good a job of defending you, or you could be guilty and get off on a technicality. *sigh*

I guess this system is better than the rock one. Somewhat... Oh and some of those teens can be as bad as the older criminals. Although in prison they quickly learn they're not *nearly* as tough as they thought they were. Still there is always at least a small chance for change isn't there? Goin in cirlces *again* Whatever i'm off to bed...

10-30-2002, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Redblueflare:
Lifetime I see your point but if you ask me the judicial system is pretty much messed up the way it is. What gives a group of people the right to judge your fate? How many times has a person been *proven* guilty just be released later because new evidence showed he was innocent?

Not even 1% of those who are actually guilty who go to prison and are never publicized [img]smile.gif[/img]

You could really be innocent and your lawyer just didn't do that good a job of defending you, or you could be guilty and get off on a technicality. *sigh* I guess this system is better than the rock one. Somewhat... Oh and some of those teens can be as bad as the older criminals. Although in prison they quickly learn they're not *nearly* as tough as they thought they were. Still there is always at least a small chance for change isn't there? Goin in cirlces *again* Whatever i'm off to bed...

I agree with you that there are some flaws but TV drama series don't tell the real story. I would think we would want to reserve any "penile colonies" for those people caught red handed wor with the smoking gun. Leave them for the multiple offenders of violent crime. Leave the iffy cases for the regular prisons.

[ 10-30-2002, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

10-29-2002, 04:27 PM	#11
antryg Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: August 30, 2002 Location: Dallas, Tx. Age: 21 Posts: 1,765	Steve Martin was right "The death penalty for parking tickets." However he didn't go far enough; I think we should escalate the penalty from there. __________________

10-29-2002, 05:40 PM	#16
Charean Hathor Join Date: March 6, 2001 Location: Waxahachie, TX Age: 60 Posts: 2,201	Yes, indeedy... that would explain a few things... like Bubba and his 12 cars on blocks in the front yard!! LOL I just saw this and had to post. These guys are interesting, and hysterical on Car Talk (NPR in the States.) My source for silliness is here: http://cartalk.cars.com/time-kill/ and their website is: http://cartalk.cars.com/ But they do have a rant and rave section... and they are in Massachusetts. __________________ And then there were 6.

10-29-2002, 08:33 PM	#17
The Hunter of Jahanna Emerald Dragon Join Date: September 25, 2001 Location: NY , NY Age: 63 Posts: 960	Here is an idea that hasnt been tried yet.Why not put prisoners on decomissioned and inoperable war ships. I know when I was in the Navy that every American warship had its own water desalination facility,kitchen,bowling alley,power plant, and Mc Donalds. We can put the ships in the middle of the ocean,Anchor them,remove the propeller that makes the ship move,and take off all of the life vests and rafts. As long as the criminals could make clean water and elecricity , and have a way to catch food, you would have a perfect prison. Escape would mean certain death in the ocean, Navy ships are nearly unsinkable by JUST the weather, and it isnt our fault if the lazy convicts dont make water or catch food. We can just drop them off and forget about them. __________________ \"How much do I love you?? I\'ll tell you one thing, it\'d be a whole hell of a lot more if you stopped nagging me and made me a friggin sandwich.\"

10-30-2002, 12:48 AM	#18
Lifetime Red Dragon Join Date: March 3, 2001 Location: Scotch College, Melbourne Posts: 1,503	As other people already mentioned, the first thing I thought when I read this was "thats what Australia is for!" or was, in any case, but its been tried before. Societies eventually make up their own rules, their own culture that goes through a refining process the longer it persists. Pretty soon you'll turn another isolated spot in the world into another first-world country. Its not a new idea. Its been done in countless games (Rebel Moon Rising, Red Faction, and other we'll send you away games, to name a few), movies (Soldier, the Escape movies, etc..) and somehow, the idea hasnt caught on. Maybe the possible risks, the space, the cost in setting up such an area have made it about as attractive as the plague. Its like concentration camps all over again. What better will we be than Stalin or Hitler? Hitler himself made prisoners dig and build their own accomodation at Auschwitz, made them survive without even bare essentials like sanitation. Its like the place of no return, literally. What about innocents? Pregnant women? Mistaken identities, people with true potential to reform? I've visited prisons, and spoken to prisoners, and I'll tell you that these convicts are people too. There is hope for many of them, even though some you wouldnt want to trust with a plastic knife. Do convicts immediately stop being human? What about teen offenders, who have a whole life to mature and to grow up and to leave their sins behind? Its a good idea, but morally flawed. An uncompromising, single-solution system is inherently vulnerable to inevitable fatal flaws and terrible mistakes. __________________ \'Cause its always raining in my head. Forget all the things I should have said..

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10-29-2002, 04:39 PM	#14
khazadman User suspended until [Feb13] Join Date: December 6, 2001 Location: the south side of ol virginny Age: 62 Posts: 1,172	The English were notorious for sending prisoners to all it's colonies, not just Australia.

10-30-2002, 01:37 AM	#19
Redblueflare Galvatron Join Date: May 9, 2001 Location: The backwoods in Georgia sigh Age: 39 Posts: 2,151	Lifetime I see your point but if you ask me the judicial system is pretty much messed up the way it is. What gives a group of people the right to judge your fate? How many times has a person been proven guilty just be released later because new evidence showed he was innocent? You could really be innocent and your lawyer just didn't do that good a job of defending you, or you could be guilty and get off on a technicality. sigh I guess this system is better than the rock one. Somewhat... Oh and some of those teens can be as bad as the older criminals. Although in prison they quickly learn they're not nearly as tough as they thought they were. Still there is always at least a small chance for change isn't there? Goin in cirlces again Whatever i'm off to bed...

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