Visit the Ironworks Gaming Website Email the Webmaster Graphics Library Rules and Regulations Help Support Ironworks Forum with a Donation to Keep us Online - We rely totally on Donations from members Donation goal Meter

Ironworks Gaming Radio

Ironworks Gaming Forum

Go Back   Ironworks Gaming Forum > Ironworks Gaming Forums > General Discussion > General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005)

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-10-2002, 03:57 PM   #41
Lord Shield
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:
Didn't Nevile Chamberlain try to talk a war to death?
my Mum could sort them out so there [img]tongue.gif[/img]
 
Old 09-10-2002, 04:02 PM   #42
Melusine
Dracolisk
 

Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Age: 43
Posts: 6,541
Quote:
Originally posted by Nachtrafe:
Oooohhhh...Mel is bouncing. WHEEEEEEEE!!!!
Quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:
Umm Mel, I will take one of your hugs any time, but it isn't nice to "bounce" like that in front of all us old men! [img]smile.gif[/img]
What did I do now..?? [img]graemlins/angel.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/littleangel.gif[/img]

Well at least it got the attention and made people hug which was the intention in the first place
__________________
[img]\"hosted/melusine.jpg\" alt=\" - \" /><br />Your voice is ambrosia
Melusine is offline  
Old 09-10-2002, 04:12 PM   #43
Thoran
Galvatron
 

Join Date: January 10, 2002
Location: Upstate NY
Age: 56
Posts: 2,109
Lots of good points... heated (after all... we're all human right?) and analytical. I got a few pennies to add...

- War stinks, even if not one guy on our side dies... killing people still stinks. The analytical part of me knows that Israel alone could clean up in the Middle East if there was an "all out war", but MANY MILLIONS would die. Our weapons platforms provide safety to our people by inflicting HEAVY damage on the opponent, while I'll take that tradeoff any day, knowing so many are dying doen't make me feel good. Hell we still don't know how many Iraqi's died during Desert Storm, but the number is surely HUGE. We (the USA) should avoid such a confrontation at all costs, and I'm glad our allies are playing the counterpoint, becuase although I have no problem with saber rattling,(it works on occasion) I'm not sure how far Pres. Bush is willing to take it.

- Saddam cannot be allowed to build a nuke, simple as that. If Bush has compelling evidence that this is going to happen... I would support surgical strikes (even involving ground forces) to get in, destroy capability, and get out. If they get a crack at Saddam... they should try to take him out. If for some reason small teams won't get the job done... well then how about a targeted airborn incursion, (similar to the forces they moved deep into Iraq by air during the start of the ground offensive) supported by aircraft this sort of incursion could be used to safely give ground forces time to search likely nuke research/build locations.

- It's very possible that if the Allies start a "build up" and make it obvious that Saddam is the target... he'll buckle like an empty soda can. Move the Marines off-shore again, bring in ground attack/close air support aircraft (A10's, Apache's...), and maybe even pull a Battleship out of mothballs to cruise around the Arabian Golf looking mean. Thump chests, make a big stink, whatever... but don't invade unless EVERY other possiblity has been eliminated.

- Regarding not taking out Saddam during Desert Storm... it wasn't the Allies complaining that prevented that (at least that wasn't the only reason). There were reasons to keep the government of Iraq intact, (regional stability being the #1) and a call was made that it would be less risky to leave him in and try to control him than to take him out at that point. I personally don't see a big problem with that decision... it was the right one at the time. Times are different these days, so everyone is second guessing what was done then. Every idiot News Anchor is putting on his army helmet and playing armchair General (or maybe Armchair President). Keep in mind the general assumption that all News Anchors are idiots and you'll go far. Don't second guess the past it's pointless, learn from it and move forward.
Thoran is offline  
Old 09-10-2002, 04:17 PM   #44
MagiK
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Doesnt appear to be any doubt that he is trying to make a nuke. They keep intercepting shipments he is trying to buy for their assembly and fabrication. Most recent a shipment of centrifuge parts was intercepted on its way to Iraq. (aluminum pipes used to enrich uranium to make it weapons grade.) As for surgical strikes. You need to know where he has them hidden to do that, and unfortunatley no one can momitor every wearhouse and hidden underground bunker to see whats up.
 
Old 09-10-2002, 04:21 PM   #45
Rokenn
Galvatron
 

Join Date: January 22, 2002
Location: california wine country
Age: 60
Posts: 2,193
Quote:
Originally posted by Nachtrafe:
[Yep. That, and the silly notion that you can end war by either talking it to death, or signing a treaty about it. FEH! No war, in recorded history, has ever been successfully stopped by a treaty, unless one side had already beaten the other. Treaties can be *forced* on the loser by the winner, and can be *enforced* by said winner. But the treaty, in an of itself, is nothing more than a piece of paper.[/QB]
Talking, treaties, and brinkmanship kept the Cold War from going Hot. So I would say that they certainly have their place in diplomacy.
__________________
“This is an impressive crowd, the haves and the have mores. <br />Some people call you the elite. <br />I call you my base.”<br />~ George W. Bush (2000)
Rokenn is offline  
Old 09-10-2002, 04:22 PM   #46
Ar-Cunin
Ra
 

Join Date: August 14, 2001
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Age: 52
Posts: 2,326
Quote:
Originally posted by Nachtrafe:


It's not about bitterness. It's about follow-through. If the US' 'allies' had allowed President Bush to finish what he'd started in Desert Storm, Saddam Hussien and his Biological, Chemical, and (possibly) Nuclear weapons wouldn't be an issue right now.
Excuse me - last time I checked it was Bush Sr. who made the descision to end the land-war after 100 hours himself - against the advice of some of his advisors.

Quote:

If the US' 'allies' had the intelligence to stop hamstringing Isreal, and the intestinal fortitude to live with the consequences, instead of whining about them, then the Palestinian threat wouldn't even exist.
So the Israeli are always right and the Pakestinians are always wrong. I'm sorry Nachtrafe, but the real world isn't black and white like that. And I don't recall your 'allies' doing anything to hamstring Israel, after all they do pretty much whatever they like (even ignoring Bush Jr. when he demanded the withdrawal of their troops after the fighting in Jenin)

Quote:

If the US' 'allies' weren't such a pack of whining, liberal, feel-good-politic, panty-waists who actually got up off their collective asses and actually *DID* something about the things they constantly whine about, then the world really *would* be a better place.
Yes, lets throw some bomb. j/k Actually I would like to find solutions that (in the instance of the Israeli/Palestinians-conflict) both sides can live with.

Quote:

So, I say again, it's not about bitterness. It's about anger! Anger at the politics of appeasement, anger at wishy-washyness, anger at cowardice.
And 'we' can't understand our American 'allies'. With their politics of aggresion, narrowmindedness and bullying-tactics (a bit strong perhaps, but I tried for the opposite of your ridiculous statements).

Quote:

Our dear European 'Allies'(with a singular exception...and the British still aren't fully on-board) are so happy to enjoy the benefits of our money, our culture, our fashions, and our aid, but, when the chips are down, and there's real work to be done...well, then all you hear is the sound of crickets and cowards.
How exatly is it that 'we' get benefit of your money (are we still talking about the Marshall-plan, culture ( [img]graemlins/nono.gif[/img] ), fashion ( [img]graemlins/reallyroll.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img] ) and aid. At every engagement that USA have engaged in since the fall of Communism, European troops have fought along side American - For instance in Afganistan where Danish soldier fought and died. But I can tell you that it is attitudes like yours that will make it harder to gather support in the future.
__________________
Life is a laugh <img border=\"0\" alt=\"[biglaugh]\" title=\"\" src=\"graemlins/biglaugh.gif\" /> - and DEATH is the final joke <img border=\"0\" alt=\"[hehe]\" title=\"\" src=\"graemlins/hehe.gif\" />
Ar-Cunin is offline  
Old 09-10-2002, 04:22 PM   #47
Moni
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally posted by Nachtrafe:

Just recently, President Bush had an 85%+ approval rating, and he still enjoys one in the high 70's. Now...you said that if 'everyone in the USA follow(ed) and agree(d) with the government (we) would be close to Dictatorship'. So, by your interpretation, does that mean that we're almost a dictatorship? [img]smile.gif[/img]

Or, is it just possible, that maybe, just possibly, it could very well be that the majority of Americans are happy with the direction our President is taking our country, and are pleased as punch that we're finally going to finish what our pansy 'Allies' wouldn't let us finish properly about a decade ago...namely, stomping a mudhole in Saddam Hussien's ass? Sounds like Democracy in action to me. [img]smile.gif[/img] Well...I guess only the Polls will tell when 2004 rolls around.

Some food for thought.
Nachtrafe

PS: I agree totally with you on the Freedom of Speech point. That is one of the defining hallmarks of our country, and one of the cornerstones of it's greatness. [img]smile.gif[/img] Without such a thing this would be a far sadder world.
Oh yes the polls! Gotta love the POLLS! They are NEVER One sided and ALWAYS tell the truth as it is!

Live by THE POLLS! Die by THE POLLS! It's all shown in THE POLLS! So Black or White, So giving of what IS and not what it seems to be!

Yes, the POLLS! Long Live THE POLLS!

I had to and I'm not sorry.
 
Old 09-10-2002, 04:33 PM   #48
MagiK
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Umm I have the same dislike for public opinion polls as you Moni [img]smile.gif[/img] but seriously, tell us how you REALLY feel [img]smile.gif[/img]
 
Old 09-10-2002, 04:35 PM   #49
Absynthe
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally posted by Moni:
Oh yes the polls! Gotta love the POLLS! They are NEVER One sided and ALWAYS tell the truth as it is!

Live by THE POLLS! Die by THE POLLS! It's all shown in THE POLLS! So Black or White, So giving of what IS and not what it seems to be!

Yes, the POLLS! Long Live THE POLLS!

I had to and I'm not sorry.[/QB]
Right On!

If it wasn't for the manufactured truth, we'd have to deal with learning the real truth, and the politicians are far too busy for that sort of thing. So figure out what the most convenient truth would be, and then take a poll to prove it. Or really save yourself some time and tune in to Rush Limbaugh and his ilk, then you avoid the messy problem of thinking all together...
 
Old 09-10-2002, 04:45 PM   #50
Rokenn
Galvatron
 

Join Date: January 22, 2002
Location: california wine country
Age: 60
Posts: 2,193
Quote:
Originally posted by Moni:
Oh yes the polls! Gotta love the POLLS! They are NEVER One sided and ALWAYS tell the truth as it is!

Live by THE POLLS! Die by THE POLLS! It's all shown in THE POLLS! So Black or White, So giving of what IS and not what it seems to be!

Yes, the POLLS! Long Live THE POLLS!

I had to and I'm not sorry.
Well you know that 57% of statistics are made up on the spot [img]tongue.gif[/img]
__________________
“This is an impressive crowd, the haves and the have mores. <br />Some people call you the elite. <br />I call you my base.”<br />~ George W. Bush (2000)
Rokenn is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
An RIAA lawsuit... from a slightly different point of view... Bungleau General Discussion 1 01-20-2006 10:26 AM
Whats your point of view? shadowhound General Discussion 18 10-22-2004 10:22 PM
Point-of View in game Evergreene Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2 Also SoU & HotU Forum 2 07-09-2002 01:18 AM
Idiotic errors Gormash Miscellaneous Games (RPG or not) 9 06-10-2002 10:43 PM
USA from a British point of view John D Harris General Discussion 7 10-13-2001 12:56 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2024 Ironworks Gaming & ©2024 The Great Escape Studios TM - All Rights Reserved