A Look into Atheism. - Page 4

Gangrell · 09-10-2003, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Azimaith:
Not as ignorant? I don't quite catch your meaning, I am wondering however, why you are spelling religion with an e, solely as souly, and morals as morale...

Ever heard of typos? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

As for how sociopaths are born, it is as Faceman said, they don't or can't adapt into society usually become anti-social or develope some other odd behavior, I'm not describing all people like this, but some to tend to end up this way.

Quote:

Originally posted by Azimaith:
Why should I worry about others if I don't know what the hell others are, if I never saw a human before I wouldn't give a crap about compassion or welfare, you intrude on my territory, I chase you off, you refuse to be chased off and I will fight till the battle turns against me or I kill them. Compassion and thought for others develops with society, not intrinsicly. Whats the point of saying this?

Seriously, you have to resort to killing to get rid of somebody? Sheesh, what happened to peace? [img]graemlins/hippysmile.gif[/img]

[ 09-10-2003, 07:05 AM: Message edited by: Gangrell ]

The Hierophant · 09-10-2003, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gangrell:
Seriously, you have to resort to killing to get rid of somebody? Sheesh, what happened to peace? [img]graemlins/hippysmile.gif[/img]

We killed it. Now shut up or you're next!

Azimaith · 09-10-2003, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Faceman:
@Azimaith

Still there is a hesitance to deliberately kill one of your own kind for petty reasons. Wolves for example in a fight present their neck to the opponent to signalise their surrender. It usually is accepted. I do not say that all animals will protect each other and NEVER kill one of their own kind. But there better be good reasons (power struggle) or a lot of emotion involved because they won't do so for "fun" or to ensure something small.

Like I said, if you don't surrender they would kill you. If you don't run away, they will kill you, theres no reason to fight a defeated enemy, but they don't have an aversion to killing should the foe continue to fight. I never said they do so for "fun."

@Gabrielle

The very first religions were made to explain the unexplainable (i.e thunder, fire, sun,...) In that way natural science is no more than religion because either you believe in the "Big Bang" or you don't. It can't be proved. Scientists however differ from priests because they concede that there is a chance they might be wrong.

Religions over history have been used to teach people...not always the right things. They have certainly been abused for power gaining and keeping.

Many things can nowadays be put into perspective but there are some basic things (like love for your mother) which are innate or at least obtained during a period where society has no direct influence on you (i.e. you can't be taught because you can't comprehend; you can only be influenced)

Love for a mother isn't innate, its learned, you learn it when the mother provides for you, not simply because they are your mother. You get provided for an offered saftey and therefore you grow attached to your provider, it has no bearing on whether they are you mother or not, its just most often that it is.

Laws are there to make society function better and more nicely. There are a lot of ridicolous laws and some of them shouldn't be laws but mere courtesy but the public often is like a small child. Of course it should be natural to say thanks/apologize for mistakes/... but if your kid doesn't do it you have to teach him/her and compell him/her to just to make him/her function better in society.

Humans fight among themselves because their rational side overrides their instincts (crime) or because emotions based on taught values take over (rage). Once the killing has begun however humans like it for the taste of power (a concept which they couldn't instinctively grab) and therefore condition themselves (and their instincts) to let it happen again.

You may be referring to Buddhism which is based on a human prophet/avatar (Buddha) like Islam (Mohammed), Christianity (Jesus), Judaism (Moses, Jesaja, Jeremiah, Josua, ...). The difference is that Buddhism has no god but speaks of an entity that is all and which we will become a part of after we have achieved redemption on earth. It's more abstract but it's based on the same grounds as any other religion. It's also similar to hinduistic Illusionism which basically states that the whole world is an illusion and that we become redeemed if we manage to see through it (VERY original idea Wachowskis

)

[ 09-10-2003, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: Azimaith ]

Faceman · 09-10-2003, 07:09 PM

but your mother provides you even before your birth thus you grow attached to her before birth thus it's an inntae attachement

Azimaith · 09-10-2003, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gangrell:

quote:
Originally posted by Azimaith:
Not as ignorant? I don't quite catch your meaning, I am wondering however, why you are spelling religion with an e, solely as souly, and morals as morale...

Ever heard of typos? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I think of typos as one or two mistakes, not the conintual spelling of a word incorrectly, you spelled religion, relegion the entire post.

As for how sociopaths are born, it is as Faceman said, they don't or can't adapt into society usually become anti-social or develope some other odd behavior, I'm not describing all people like this, but some to tend to end up this way.

If you've never been into society than its essentially the same thing except you don't have the education available to those within society

Quote:

Originally posted by Azimaith:
Why should I worry about others if I don't know what the hell others are, if I never saw a human before I wouldn't give a crap about compassion or welfare, you intrude on my territory, I chase you off, you refuse to be chased off and I will fight till the battle turns against me or I kill them. Compassion and thought for others develops with society, not intrinsicly. Whats the point of saying this?

Seriously, you have to resort to killing to get rid of somebody? Sheesh, what happened to peace? [img]graemlins/hippysmile.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]I'm guessing your sarcastic in this point but just in case: "you intrude on my territory, I chase you off, you refuse to be chased off and I will fight till the battle turns against me or I kill them. "

Azimaith · 09-10-2003, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Faceman:

quote:
Originally posted by Azimaith:
You are saying here that morals are intrinsic in humans? What do you do you explain sociopaths?

With society These are people who can't adapt to society and drive themselves mad accordingly.
Also if I had never seen another human before and one intruded on my territory I'd be curious rather than homicidal because I think that curiosity is an innate human ability which comes with our large brain. [/QUOTE]Have you seen male silverback gorrilas be curious when humans wander around they're kids? Naturally a lone human would not have children but the point would still be there if I had with me a fresh kill, I'd defend it.

Azimaith · 09-10-2003, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Faceman:

quote:
Originally posted by Azimaith:
You are saying here that morals are intrinsic in humans? What do you do you explain sociopaths?

With society These are people who can't adapt to society and drive themselves mad accordingly.
Also if I had never seen another human before and one intruded on my territory I'd be curious rather than homicidal because I think that curiosity is an innate human ability which comes with our large brain. [/QUOTE]Have you seen male silverback gorrilas be curious when humans wander around they're kids? Naturally a lone human would not have children but the point would still be there if I had with me a fresh kill, I'd defend it.

A sociopath is basically someone who doens't have what we call morals, not having morals of course doesn't mean they have no self control, generally they don't feel remorse, they don't feel appreciation, and they don't feel the need to owe anyone, anything. This could develop if you never had society as well.

Gangrell · 09-10-2003, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Azimaith:
I think of typos as one or two mistakes, not the conintual spelling of a word incorrectly, you spelled religion, relegion the entire post.

Seriously, quit nitpicking, if I spelt it wrong then I did, woo hoo! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Quote:

Originally posted by Azimaith:
Have you seen male silverback gorrilas be curious when humans wander around they're kids? Naturally a lone human would not have children but the point would still be there if I had with me a fresh kill, I'd defend it.

That's based on instinct there good buddy, man has become a bit evolved along the way and we've descerned differences that are right and wrong. Just because I'm really hungry and you start biting at my hamburger doesn't mean I'll kill you, I might beat on your head a little bit but other than that, nothing [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 09-10-2003, 07:29 PM: Message edited by: Gangrell ]

Azimaith · 09-10-2003, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gangrell:

quote:
Originally posted by Azimaith:
I think of typos as one or two mistakes, not the conintual spelling of a word incorrectly, you spelled religion, relegion the entire post.

Seriously, quit nitpicking, if I spelt it wrong then I did, woo hoo! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Quote:

Originally posted by Azimaith:
Have you seen male silverback gorrilas be curious when humans wander around they're kids? Naturally a lone human would not have children but the point would still be there if I had with me a fresh kill, I'd defend it.

That's based on instinct there good buddy, man has become a bit evolved along the way and we've descerned differences that are right and wrong. Just because I'm really hungry and you start biting at my hamburger doesn't mean I'll kill you, I might beat on your head a little bit but other than that, nothing [img]tongue.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]Lets put you in an animal situation. You haven't eaten for days, you've finally gotten your hands on a hamburger, someone grabs it from you and starts eating it. You hit them on the head a bit, they keep eating, so you just let yourself starve because you didn't defend your food? I don't see how thats very effective.

Gangrell · 09-10-2003, 07:51 PM

I guess you aren't using well the ways of common sense my friend. You cannot put a man in an animal situtation, we have evolved, we have good judgement. If someone grabbed my food, I would take it back from him, not let him eat it [img]graemlins/doh.gif[/img]

The way you're trying to make a point, you make it seem like it's ok to take a life if you're "defending" something.

It may not be very effective, but I won't fly off the handle and take a life, do I have to drill you about this? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

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09-10-2003, 07:09 PM	#34
Faceman Hathor Join Date: February 18, 2002 Location: Vienna Age: 42 Posts: 2,248	but your mother provides you even before your birth thus you grow attached to her before birth thus it's an inntae attachement __________________ \"I am forever spellbound by the frailty of life\"<br /><br /> Faceman

09-10-2003, 07:51 PM	#40
Gangrell Iron Throne Cult Join Date: January 2, 2003 Location: Big Castle in the Sky Age: 36 Posts: 4,835	I guess you aren't using well the ways of common sense my friend. You cannot put a man in an animal situtation, we have evolved, we have good judgement. If someone grabbed my food, I would take it back from him, not let him eat it [img]graemlins/doh.gif[/img] The way you're trying to make a point, you make it seem like it's ok to take a life if you're "defending" something. It may not be very effective, but I won't fly off the handle and take a life, do I have to drill you about this? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

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