anti-religious extremist gone too far??

[TAOWolf]

Okay, have to do the "Devil's Advocate" on this one.....

"I pledge allegiance to the flag".........
(You will have no idols before me)
okay, so are you swearing allegiance to a flag, or to God?
and is this blasphemy?

"Liberty and Justice for all?"
(where?)
tell that to rape victims who get torn apart in the courtroom by the rapist's lawyer...........

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: [QB God Save The Queen![/QB]

And that's bollocks too. However, luckily these days very few people take it seriously under the age of 60.

Certainly our kids aren't required to say it every time they set foot in school to undergo the rigours of education. Twould be adding insult to injury. One thing at a time, say I... [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: Just remove the unwanted portion? Sorry, doesn't work like that.

So it’s ok then to discriminate against atheists and agnostics?
BTW what do you think of my bible quote?

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: Take out that one line and someone will want to take out another and another until there is nothing left.

The only people who would behave like that are the American right and all other such reactionary authoritarians.

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: The Constitution is the Constitution and not subject to alteration, only interpretation

Not even the constitution is perfect.
It is not some transcendent document; it merely reflects the age in which it was written.
Besides if it can be interpreted in different ways, then it has room for improvement, it should quite Cleary lay out the fundamental rights etc of people, so that there is no room for interpretation by those who would abuse it.

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: God Save The Queen!

do you mean the idle rich? the parasites upon our nation?
who gobble up over £37million of our taxpayers money?

[Silver Cheetah]

Um...... I still have this question......

Pledge of Allegiance

I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America,
and to the Republic for which it stands,
one nation under God, indivisible,
with liberty and justice for all.

QUESTION to all Americans:

This bit about 'liberty and justice' for all. Was that put in after the Civil Rights act was passed? It can hardly have been before, surely, as that would make a mockery of the whole thing?

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: Um...... I still have this question...... Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. QUESTION to all Americans: This bit about 'liberty and justice' for all. Was that put in after the Civil Rights act was passed? It can hardly have been before, surely, as that would make a mockery of the whole thing?

No Cheeta it wasn't. Most people would tell you it wasn't true immediately after the passing of Civil Rights legislations, in fact, some people would say it's still not true today. But it's certainly a worthy goal to aspire to.

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: [QB]Um...... I still have this question...... Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Actually no one should have to pledge allegience to any country, it's an outdated and anachronistic idea.
All nationalism (and the nation state) is an obstacle to the international unity of the workers and the betterment therof. Nationalism always produces the most odious results (and people), in the Balkans, in Nazi Germany and everywhere it rears it's ugly head.

SMUSH TEH STATE!!!
POWAR TU TEH PEAPEALE!!!!!
WURKERS UF TEHO WURLD UNIGHT!!! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: quote: Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: [QB God Save The Queen!

And that's bollocks too. However, luckily these days very few people take it seriously under the age of 60.

Certainly our kids aren't required to say it every time they set foot in school to undergo the rigours of education. Twould be adding insult to injury. One thing at a time, say I... [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QB][/QUOTE]American kids aren't required to say it everyday. I don't think I remember saying it in school after the 5th or 6th grade. My son, 14, doesn't even know it.

What this court is saying is not that you can't require kids to say the pledge in school. They are saying the pledge cannot be said in school at all.

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: quote: Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: quote: Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: [QB God Save The Queen!

And that's bollocks too. However, luckily these days very few people take it seriously under the age of 60.

Certainly our kids aren't required to say it every time they set foot in school to undergo the rigours of education. Twould be adding insult to injury. One thing at a time, say I... [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]American kids aren't required to say it everyday. I don't think I remember saying it in school after the 5th or 6th grade. My son, 14, doesn't even know it.

What this court is saying is not that you can't require kids to say the pledge in school. They are saying the pledge cannot be said in school at all.[/QB][/QUOTE]So hang on, I need to get this clear. The pledge is not compulsory for children to say in school at any age? When exactly would the pledge be used?

And they are not saying the pledge cannot be said in school at all, are they? Just that it can't be used in its present form with the words 'under god'.

So, what's the problem? Why all the fuss about the 'under god' bit? Why is it so important that America thinks its creation and actions are sanctioned by god? Basically, none of you are ever ever going to know that for sure. It's not like god is going to come down and do head patting, now is s/he/it?

[TAOWolf]

[img]graemlins/cheers.gif[/img] I agree, Silver Cheetah

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: quote: Originally posted by John D Harris: Chewbacca, The 1st amendment says "Congress shall make no law establishing religion,or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" not the gov't. or the President and because it's the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law that is being argued in this case, it might not be upheld. (asmueing "under God" was added by excutive order as has been stated)

Actually the whole pledge of allegiance idea is unbiblical:

Matthew 3:33-37:

"Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not
break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' 34But I tell
you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35or by
the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of
the Great King. 36And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even
one hair white or black. 37Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,'
'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

So here's Jesus telling you not to make pledges or oaths, because to do so comes
"From the evil one".[/QB][/QUOTE]Jesus says not to swear by this or that, not making a pledge or oath is wrong. He is saying if you say "yes" or "no" then say "yes" or "no", do not "yes BY God", or "no BY Heaven". As if we humans have the power to decide what is to be done by either God or Heaven. In the days of Jesus on this earth, the practice was if you made an oath by something then your oath was of more value then just saying you would do it. When you say you're going to do something do it, do what you say, don't swear falsely (see verse32). It's swearing falsely to swear by anything because those things you are swearing by aren't yours to swear by Jesus gives examples of several things: Heaven, Jerusalem etc. Or you don't have the power over what you are swearing by.

Yes the pledge of allegiance is an oath, it says:
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the Unitied States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, One nation under God, indivisable, with liberty and justice for all.

Not: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the Unitied States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, by God, indivisable, with liberty and justice for all.

The phrase "under God" is a statment that the USA is suboardinate to God. Not an additive to make the oath somehow more trustworthy.

There are some Christians that feel, they can not make any pledge or oath. THAT is fine they don't have to do it, that's between them and God, as it is for all men.