15 British Marines taken by force by Iran's Navy

[PurpleXVI]

Originally posted by robertthebard: 'nuff said. You the hell are bashing the US, and I'm really sick of reading it. Look, you don't mind if the schoolyard bullies take your lunch money, that's fine. Lay down and take it any way you want. But, don't expect any one else to have your lay down and die attitude. Hey, since fighting for what's right seems to go so far against your grain, why don't you sign your properties over to me. I could use some extra stuff, if you haven't given it to a local bully already.

Seriously, what is the damn problem?

Is it because I'm suggesting a military action is a bad idea?

It's not a "lay down and die"-attitude, it's a "let's not waste any more lives than we absolutely must to guarantee safety and liberty"-attitude.

[Luvian]

Flame baiting by attacking someone's country is bad, but that doesn't mean no one can ever tell their opinion on a country's moves or whatever. It's ok to disagree, you just have to do it in a polite way.

[robertthebard]

I really can't pull the line out of context, even though it would be baity(?) enough on it's own, when taken in context with other discussions concerning US policy on the war in general, in particular, the discussion concerning concerns about Iran. However, the part that really got me to post in the first place is this:

Snip:

Unless the US administration is completely composed of nutters, at any rate.

What the hell does the US administration have to do with a largely Iran/Britain problem? Just another excuse to drag foreign policy that you don't agree with through the coals? Talk about coming from left field to get another dig on us. Yes, us. I voted for the current administration, although, I wouldn't do it again, if he could run. So your little one liner seemingly innocent little dig is directed directly at me.

I wonder how you would feel, Purple, if every time there's an international incident, I started trashing your home country's government, whether your country is involved or not. So perhaps you should read the stories that are posted here before you start attacking the US administration about a British problem. I'm really sick of reading about how you feel about us, whether we're involved in the problem, Iraq, or not, Iran's latest little SNAFU.

[PurpleXVI]

The US administration has a lot to do with this. They're currently in a military coalition with the UK in the area, and if any sort of military strike was to be launched for the purpose of recovering the UK Marines, US troops would likely be involved.

If the UK was to launch a military action, then their assets in the area would likely be the target of Iranian retaliation, and since their assets are very close to, and allied with, the US, the US would probably also end up as a target. Since this is quite likely obvious to US politicians and leaders, I suspect they would have some say in the matter if the UK decided it wanted to recover it's men by force. There's also the fact that the UK military is limited in size, and they would probably need assistance from the US in order to have the resources necessary to launch an attack on a country like Iran. Not to mention permission to pass through US lines with intention to attack another country.

I do not bring up the US unless it is in some way relevant, thank you very much, and if you kept up bringing up the Danish government I'd just laugh, tell you I didn't vote for them and otherwise not care, since for the most part they would be entirely unrelated to the matters at hand. And even if you DID call our government ridiculous and I HAD voted for them, I wouldn't care either! It wasn't an insult at me or my people, just at the acts of our elected government, something that I have no control over or say in, really.

You're seeing attacks where none are, let it lie, please. If you insist in pursuing this silly course, then I'm just going to have to ignore everything you post from this point on. I've already had to do that to some people who couldn't drop the personal jabs. And yes, what you are doing is a personal attack, you are accusing me of making an attempt at baiting you and riling you up, of making attacks at you rather than making posts pertinent to the debate at hand.

[Larry_OHF]

Originally posted by PurpleXVI: "RAR RELEASE THEM OR WE WILL BREAK THEM OUT!"-declaration from the US There will be some military dickwaving back and forth.

Purple, it all comes down to your phrasing. Whether you meant any harm or not, disguised or not, the way you say things sometimes takes a life of its own, maybe away from your intentions, maybe mirroring them.

The first post you made contains the above two statements. The use of RAR! and the all caps suggests that you feel that the US commonly takes on the attitude of shouting and roaring which you feel that they will do now, even though the UK has not invited us to help. I personally think that if the UK asked for our help in manning the rescue if it comes to that, then we are obliged to help because they are allies. Does Denmark not have allies that it would like to ask for help when the need arises? Would you want those allies to be helpful or just sit on the sidelines as cheerleaders?

Next, the use of military dickwaving was a crude form to refer to the manner in which we might find a way to get those men to safety. If you would have been so kind as to re-phrase your comment, then people like Robert would not have taken offence to your apparent dislike of the UK and US. For certainly, we only use such terms on people that we do not respect. That is where Luvian's comment comes into play. Disagreeing with a country's tactics is one thing, but the way you disagree is its own subject.

Therefore, if you honestly do not mean disrespect do not use vocabulary that shows otherwise. I think the term is netiquette.

[ 03-24-2007, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: Larry_OHF ]

[PurpleXVI]

Well, "military dickwaving" was followed by "back and forth," suggesting that both sides would be equally bad about it. So there's really only an insult there if someone finds it insulting to have their country compared to Iran.

The "RAR!"-comment was entirely humorous hyperbole rather than an attack, and I hold that it takes touchiness to see it as anything else.

And again, the way you perceive things also matters. Robert could, for example, have chosen not to expect attacks and hostility, but rather to take my commentary at face value. If I had an issue with the US or it's government that would be anything but inflammatory, and was pertinent, I would state it straight out. I do not consider myself any more at fault in this situation than Robert.

[shamrock_uk]

Some interesting links I think:

An interview with the former First Sea Lord of the Admiralty (he was in charge for 2004) discussing the situation here including rules of engagement and navigation.

Also this link has Iran claiming that the sailors have admitted being in their waters. Whether they're just going through the motions to get relseased remains to be seen though.

[ 03-24-2007, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: shamrock_uk ]

[robertthebard]

I'd say I pretty much stated my position, and my feelings on it. Any further justification on your part, or finger pointing at me for reading stuff into it is completely wasted. The fact is, you automatically went into "slam the US" mode, when we have no involvement.

Hmmm:

My guess is that there will be some: "RAR RELEASE THEM OR WE WILL BREAK THEM OUT!"-declaration from the US

and hmm again:

Unless the US administration is completely composed of nutters, at any rate.

Sure is a lot of commentary about the US in a discussion involving the British Navy, and Iran. You're right Purple, I'm just reading stuff into what you say.

[PurpleXVI]

Yes, my guess was that the US, having previously suggested it would use military force against Iran's nuclear program if it continued, might threaten to use military force on behalf of it's ally in a regional problem. This is clearly an insult towards the US.

It was also a terrible insult to suggest that they would have to be crazy to do something I said they would probably not do.

[Sir Goulum]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: The use of RAR! and the all caps suggests that you feel that the US commonly takes on the attitude of shouting and roaring which you feel that they will do now, even though the UK has not invited us to help.

But... they do.

Edit- It's hardly the rest of the worlds fault if the US tries to meddle into every little issue that crops up on this Earth. They're just being "nosy". [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 03-24-2007, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: Sir Goulum ]