Aussies, please correct me if this news is true.. I am so heartbroken now.

[Yorick]

Originally Posted by wellard The Irony missed ya their Yorick ..

My bad...

[Sever]

What if the individual is already toting one or two drug addictions? Can we buy it then?...

Edit: Lol, "I'd like to buy this one please."
"Show me some track marks, kid."

Seriously, it never ceases to amaze me that the OFLC thinks people magically stop playing games when they turn 16.

[Cerek]

Originally Posted by JrKASperov While I agree with Yorick's assessment of the trouble with these things, I feel obliged to make a point no one seems to make in these types of debates: We do not need to limit the creation of such games/movies etc. if we limit the availability to underaged people enough. Too many a time, journalists test the application of the laws that are in place that forbid children underage to buy certain games and find very negative results in that those guys behind the counter do not enforce such laws. That, together with the seemingly increased lack of parental guide in children's lives (what parent knows what their kid is doing anymore?) points to one important thing: no one is actively stopping these kids from getting these games/movies through the possibilities that are already here. That said, I must stress the importance I feel of the creation of these types of entertainment or art. Real life isn't a flower show where butterflies whistle merry songs. Death and hardship are part of everyone's life, and we as adults should have the right and possibility to express ourselves about this. This also means having a game where we can live the themes that are so impressive for us, things like post-apocalyptic worlds, war, guns. That said, of course these things should be restricted to people who can deal with it and put it in it's proper context, in other words, adults. But as I've noted above, there are (at least here in the Netherlands) already laws which should do this. If these laws aren't adhered to by distributors, target them and not the duped consumer.

"What parent knows what their kid is doing anymore?" Any parent that is worth a damn. I monitor every single game my boys play, whether it be PS2, XBox or PC. I also preview any movie I think may be inappropriate for them to watch (I decided not to take them to Iron Man, for example, though it actually isn't worse than some other movies they've seen). I take my responsibility as a parent VERY seriously. That doesn't mean I don't make mistakes sometimes (like letting them rent Destroy All Humans and Jaws - where the primary objective is to kill humans). I've returned movies AND games I felt were not acceptable and I've refused to let them have some games and movies because of the content.

As for retailers not enforcing the laws in place, the blame for that lies squarely on the retailers shoulders. It's just like selling alcohol or tobacco. If the customer isn't old enough to buy the product, the clerk (and perhaps the store) should be punished for selling to them. Wal-Mart, for one, is very strict about this. Even though I'm WELL past the legal age, I've been "carded" at Wally World for movies from time to time. I don't take offense at that. Instead, I'm glad they actually take their policy seriously enough to enforce it.

[Firestormalpha]

Well standing rule at Wal-mart is that if you don't look at least in your 40's they card you. So you could take that as a compliment Cerek.

I've heard that Target (the store's, not the IW member) is also very strict, in fact that they don't sell M rated games to anyone under 18 rather than 17.

[Memnoch]

Originally Posted by Harkoliar http://au.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/fallou...pdates;title;1 Dangit

Geez. The wowsers are winning. And what about GTA4? Did that get refused classification too? Some pretty graphic drug use in that game (which I'm playing at the moment).

[Bungleau]

I also keep a close eye on what my kids play, and often play as well. I guess that's part of being a gamer myself... a common bond we can share. They even ask me to join them quite often... although my 8-year-old son routinely kicks my tail in MarioKart... He's been known to say that he let me win... and he's not just saying it to make himself feel better

Smart parents pay attention to what their kids are doing. The others... don't. You can't know everything, and frankly, I don't want to, but you can know a lot.

[Aelia Jusa]

Originally Posted by Cerek (like letting them rent Destroy All Humans and Jaws - where the primary objective is to kill humans).

I think possibly your first clue that Destroy All Humans may not be ideal might have been in the title... . (Actually when I first read that sentence I read it as "Destroy All Humans and Jews" )

Sever makes a good point, which is being made by those lobbying for changes to the classification scheme to include an R rating - kids are not the only ones to play video/computer games so it's not like the only market for these games that don't meet the MA rating is non-adults. Personally I have no interest in games that require me to graphically maim people or whatever, but adults who are capable of making informed decisions should be able to.

One point that is relevant for the argument that exposure to things like violence and drug use is influential is that, unlike in movies, in games the young person is actually actively participating in the act rather than just passively watching. Not only that, but usually they are rewarded ingame for whatever the act is, killing or maiming or stealing or whatever. While I don't think there is a direct conscious link that is made, i.e., "I got a power up from killing that dude, let's try that tomorrow at school", it's foolish to dismiss social learning and normative influences, especially with prolonged exposure and particularly during adolescence when the ability to reason and think about consequences is still developing.

[CerebroDragon]

*Reads the thread curiously, noting a distinct lack of 'nerd-rage'.

This decision is a real kick in the proverbials to all self-respecting, rational and intelligent gamers and has the potential to do more harm than good in some respects. Not only will it obviously push customers to look elsewhere from local businesses to imports overseas, but it potentially adds a vigilant sense of justification to the act of piracy. This is especially a concern for younger gamers, I think.
Those prone to such measures to obtain the game may have a thought that could resemble: Mwahaha, this is banned in my country - so aren't I being a naughty little fellow by torrenting it?

The OFLC is certainly archaic, outmoded and behind the times with this decision. It is one that is made by a minority to affect a majority of perfectly discerning gamers who are able to distinguish between fantasy and reality.
It really saddens me that such an irrational and patronising morality still exists in this country - even if its heart is in the right place.

@ Aelia Jusa
The very valid point you make was used quite vehemently in an argument made by a teacher to me during my teaching rounds last year at a secondary school. I was looking at setting up a LAN club for lunchtimes and this particular teacher made the concern about casuality of violence and links to anti-social behaviour. In reply, I made the point that with strong reflective practice in gaming behaviours with young people, this ideally can be largely avoided. Thus, I made it a procedural effort to raise questions and awareness of moral issues during game sessions and to ensure communication streams were kept open.

It's pleasing to read all of the measures posters have made with their own children regarding this - I have done the same with my younger brother throughout his early teens.

On a final not altogether unrelated note, Bethesda have decided that unlike in Fallouts 1/2 where killing children however intentional or not, is possible - in Fallout 3 children will be immortal. What's interesting and darkly ironic is the fact that you are able to detonate a nuclear weapon upon an entire town in the game, killing god knows how many people in total.
Defending the innocent lives of imaginary children never did feel quite so peculiar or hypocritically delusional...

[Spirits Reborn]

Originally Posted by Firestormalpha Well standing rule at Wal-mart is that if you don't look at least in your 40's they card you. So you could take that as a compliment Cerek. I've heard that Target (the store's, not the IW member) is also very strict, in fact that they don't sell M rated games to anyone under 18 rather than 17.

yeah , I used to work at a target. And they were really strict about that, because we had parents come and complain about it (even though they came along and bought it...seriously! )
How can someone pay for a game and not even glance at it? if the game is called Gears of WAR , lemme guess, its related to war.

And

Originally Posted by Cerek "What parent knows what their kid is doing anymore?" Any parent that is worth a damn. I monitor every single game my boys play, whether it be PS2, XBox or PC. I also preview any movie I think may be inappropriate for them to watch (I decided not to take them to Iron Man, for example, though it actually isn't worse than some other movies they've seen). I take my responsibility as a parent VERY seriously. That doesn't mean I don't make mistakes sometimes (like letting them rent Destroy All Humans and Jaws - where the primary objective is to kill humans). I've returned movies AND games I felt were not acceptable and I've refused to let them have some games and movies because of the content.

That's great that you do,really. We need more cereks out there And the Any parents worth a damn- well we're running short on those lately Soooooo

Cerek for president !

[pritchke]

They need an 18+ rating. I always wondered why Kung Fu Panda got a PG13 rating, I have not seen it yet. But 101 dalmations has violence, alcohol and smoking, dangerous driving and one of the scariest villans ever and it is G. Your toddles may watch. WTF!