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Old 05-25-2005, 04:23 AM   #1
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Red Dragon
 

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Hello, I know there have been lots of posts about bards, I’ve read a few but still have a few questions.
Right, I’ve never played a ‘magic’ user (usually fighters, barbarians, and monks) so thought I’d try a bard, to ease myself in. But I don’t know how to build one.
Do I put lots of points into Int, cha or dex.
I was thinking I’d also put in some RDD levels. I was also thinking of putting in 1 level of monk to wear their robes so I’d not get any spell failures.
So if anyone has any ideas or suggestions that would be great.

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Old 05-25-2005, 06:31 AM   #2
Legolas
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You can take several different approaches with bards.

First of all, there's the battle bard. This one uses magic and song to increase its reasonable combat capabilities, and has a Charisma of about 16, a Dexterity around 14 (depending on armor choice and selection of the Cat's Grace spell), and mainly improves Strength for damage. Typically you'd carry a shield in your off-hand. They go well with RDD levels.
Alternatively, make a ballistic bard. You would use ranged weapons instead of melee tools, and rather than Strength, you invest in Dexterity. Your bardic spells here mostly summon allies and make you harder to hit. They don't improve the quality of your bow and arrows the way Keen Edge and Magic Weapon do for close combat whacking implements. This goes well with AA levels.
Other builds concentrate more on the bard's casting abilities. You might want to take a spell focus: enchantment, and invest heavily in Charisma. This makes your mind-affecting spells very hard to resist. You typically do not want to multiclass here because it affects your spell penetration chances.
You could also opt to concentrate on different spell schools to do more direct damage, though bards have only a limited spell list to choose from there.
Another spell-based build does not rely on Charisma much. Instead, you'd spend points on Constitution. You then proceed to use the Wounding Whispers type spells to let the enemy beat themselves to death, while your healing magic keeps you from joining them.
The final popular build raises Intelligence, and so lets the bard take a great amount of skillpoints in many different fields. The Tumble skill raises your armor class, the Taunt skill makes your enemies easier to hit, the Spellcraft skill makes you more resistant to magic, the Use Magic Device skill lets you use those Monk robes without needing Monk levels, and so on. This type of build has lots of roleplay advantages as well. It also goes well with the Assassin class, giving dreadful paralysis DCs and extra spells.
As the above illustrates, you can concentrate on just about any attribute and get something good out of it.

The main problem with bards, is that you never have enough feats to concentrate on both combat and magic, so you're stuck choosing for one, or making a bad compromise. Still Spell and Curse Song are two spells which are almost always worth considering, because the former lets you cast spells in armor without suffering spell failure, if you are willing to cast your spells at a higher level. The latter is the bard's Fireball, an area of effect-type spell-like ability that damages opponents, and even makes them weaker in other fields as well.

[ 05-26-2005, 06:22 AM: Message edited by: Legolas ]
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Old 05-25-2005, 07:23 AM   #3
robertthebard
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The one thing to remember is that bard spell lvls are controlled by cha, instead of Int, as is the case with mage types. I believe that a final cha of around 16 would do nicely, especially if you intend to multi class. Other than that, remember to put some points into the perform skill, this will vastly improve both the regular bard song, and the curse songs effectiveness.
RDD will still allow you to take spell craft as a class skill, so I'd put some points there, regardless of how you decide to go.
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Old 05-25-2005, 08:39 AM   #4
Stratos
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You can't add Monk levels to a Bard unless you change alignment. Monks can only be of any Lawful alignment and Bards can be anything but Lawful.

My favourite Bard multiclass is a Bard/Rogue with the focus on the Bard. Pump up dexterity and use a ranged weapon; the wide variety of arrows and bolts makes up for the Bards lack of elemental attacks to some degree. The Rogue levels will add Uncanny Dodge, very good for dex characters, and some other feats that might be useful. Use the two Bard songs and spells to buff up.

[ 05-25-2005, 08:44 AM: Message edited by: Stratos ]
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Old 05-26-2005, 03:23 AM   #5
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I can see that the points might be spread quite thin...will have to think about this.
I do was to put in RDD levels (just like dragons) and I believe that add a few points onto str. so would it be worth adding other points into int and cha...
Would a rapier be a good weapon to use?
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Old 05-26-2005, 06:31 AM   #6
Stratos
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Don't add to much into strength if you intend to add RDD levels as they get a strength bonus that increases with levels up to +8 strength.

Intelligence and charisma are useful stats for Bards. Bards don't get many skill points relative to their number of class skills so a int of 12-14 might be to consider if you want to use many skills.

A rapier is a good weapon but best for a high dex/Weapon Finesse character.
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Old 05-26-2005, 08:12 AM   #7
robertthebard
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I have a bard/rdd/rogue that uses a rapier, and she is quite effective with it. Note that she also has Dev Crit, and Epic Dodge as well, but she has a high ab, and a high ac as well, which is to be expected with a str of 25+, a dex of 25+, and a tumble of 50, last time I looked. RDD also adds constitution, and charisma, along with other nifty goodies, like wings, increased natural ac, and immunity to fire.
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