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Old 09-05-2007, 12:21 AM   #1
Memnoch
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Join Date: February 28, 2001
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Shocked Rogues need to be nerfed

Apparently, according to this snapperhead.

Quote:
Rogues have variety of powerful tools at their disposal to make the battles turn to their favor. Alongside with powerful stuns and myriads of CC's designed to lock the enemy down, no wonder rogues are blatantly overpowered.

Rogues have to realize their stuns are lot more powerful than they think it is. With proper stunlock routine (not mindlessly spamming SS like many idiot Night Elf rogues tend to do), a player could be locked down for over 10 seconds! That is ridiculous, not even Fear lasts that long. Contrary to popular myth that Fear lasts 25 seconds always no matter how much damage is done, Fear actually breaks VERY often, often before 10 seconds are over. Not only that, there are many ways to break Fear whereas only limited number of abilities can break stuns. What's worse, stuns don't break on damage at all! It doesn't matter if damage is 10 or 100,000,000, stun will always last full length (barring DR).

As if rogues locking down on players are not overpowered enough, rogues get a talent that allows them to instantly reset all cooldowns (so they can launch yet another round of stunlock that you can't do @!@% about), an ability that grants instant stealthing so they can launch opening stun again, and an item designed to instantly refill their Energy! Blasphemy, and overpowered. Not even rage potions give 100 rage to a warrior, and mana potions do not return full mana back to us. This is seriously overpowered and needs nerf.

Maybe it'd be fair if rogues couldn't deal all that much damage, if at all, while the target is locked down with its powerful stunlock.... but alas, we all know rogues also deal very high damage. It is known fact many top rogues place 1st or near 1st in damage meters in raids, and does likewise in arenas and PvP. Backstab and Ambush deals % based damage, and that's incredibly overpowered due to how well it scales! Blizzard knew % based scaling is overpowered, hence Mortal Strike was nerfed to flat +damage rather than % of weapon damage. As if that's not enough, rogues have a talent that -guarantees- 100% crit on a successful hit with any damaging move! No other class has such an ability, and with % based scaling on those abilities, rogues can pump out deadly damage real fast while still locking you down.

Not enough energy? Just chug a thistle tea!

In addition, rogues have many ways which to escape from the combat. How come a class that can lock down people, deliver high burst and sustained damage, are also given a reliable and myriad of ways to escape? Warlocks for example, only have Fear and Death Coil. Fear is broken like whoa, so it is not worth mentioning, and Death Coil only lasts few seconds on a 2 minute cooldown. What do rogues get? Rogues get Sprint (talented makes you FREE from any snares! Wow.), Vanish (instant get-away card), Blind (immediately make enemy incapacitated). As if that's not enough, those abilities also get reset by Preparation. Clearly, rogues need all that and more. A good method of nerfing them would be make Sprint, Vanish and Blind all share same 5 minute cooldown, and not be reset by Preparation.

We cloth wearers already have low armor and not enough method which to escape ourselves from the evil clutches of rogue. Death Coil was one such method that helped us to live longer, but unfortunately, since Blizzard loves rogues so much, they gave them the Cloak of Shadows... oops, I mean, Cloak of Skill. Extremely powerful ability that instantly wipes any and all magical debuffs AND renders the rogue immune to any spell-based attacks at 90% chance! What is this? Not only that, it is only on 1 minute cooldown. Cloak of Shadows need a nerf, it is too unfair to cloth wearers. 1 minute cooldown should be increased to 2 minutes, and only 50% chance to ignore spell damage.

I see a lot of people whining about warlocks, especially from rogues. You guys have no excuse at all if you lose to a warlock. First, we warlocks wear cloth, and those oh-so-overpowered Soul Link'ed warlocks have crappy damage or DoT ability. Contrary to popular rogue belief, no warlocks can have soul link, shadowfury, and unstable affliction in a single tree. Second, warlocks have little to no escape manuevers. Don't even mention succubus, a pet that gets 1 shotted, or 2 shotted if you have crappy gear. Not to mention Seduce is channeled AND shares DR with Fear! That is so dumb, Blizzard need to revert that change. Third, warlock DoTs take time to work, and you have Cloak of Skill to completely nullify them in a blink of an eye. You also get to use that ability TWICE whereas warlock can use Death Coil once in that same time period. Why are you whining about DoTs anyway? I want to say that this topic is a joke, and rogues are actually quite underpowered and needs more buffs to be competitive though, look at their arena representation; cloak of shadows is not enough, and even casters laugh at rogues... definitely not right. Fourth, Felguard means the warlock is utterly gimped in every other area of the warlock. Also, Felguard is not that tough and dies fast, and any friendly warlocks can easily render a demonlogy warlock a sitting duck. Fifth, duels don't mean anything; duels give warlocks time to prepare best for that particular situation. Don't come QQing at us because you lost to a warlock in a duel.

See, I've stated everything that proves that rogues are overpowered, and that warlocks are not overpowered. I know you will flame me, and poking fun at my bad arena rating, bad spec, or bad gears in general - or even how I must suck at pvp, but that's fine.

As long as the truth is known, then it is fine by me.

Flame on, but I will be ready for you, overpowered rogues. My truth shall, hopefully, make some of you open your eyes and agree with me!

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...71572835&sid=1
Geez, what a moaner! th30:
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Old 09-05-2007, 04:52 AM   #2
Kakero
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Default Re: Rogues need to be nerfed

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

Rogues are fine, Lrn2play!
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Old 09-05-2007, 05:39 AM   #3
Marty4
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Default Re: Rogues need to be nerfed

Wait wait wait.... Is this a warlock complaining?

Wow.
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Old 09-06-2007, 03:15 AM   #4
Timber Loftis
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Default Re: Rogues need to be nerfed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty4 View Post
Wait wait wait.... Is this a warlock complaining?

Wow.
It doesn't take away from the truth of it.

Yes, it's a crappy lock, with crappy stats and crappy skills and crappy ratings.

But what he says is true. Seduce and fear were put on the same DR. Then they were both nerfed to be 10 secs max and, in PVP, have a high chance to break on damage (i.e. DoTs from someone with my stats WILL break PVP fear). Why wasn't the same done to rogues and their stuns and spell lockouts? Why can they still do unabated damage while you're stunlocked with no increase in the chance to break the stunlock? Alongside CloSkill, how's that fair.

Rogue murder clothies, and clothies chance to fight back has been negated. Note that as much as this lock whines, the situation is MUCH worse for a shadow priest.

Regardless, they buff and nerf all the time, I'll adapt. Whatever.
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Old 09-06-2007, 11:46 AM   #5
Memnoch
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Default Re: Rogues need to be nerfed

But from what I understand, a full stunlock build (Mutilate) is achieved at the cost of lower overall damage, right? And if you have Mutilate build you can't have Hemo or Preparation. The bloke above is assuming that a level 70 rogue will have access to EVERY talent in EVERY tree.
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Old 09-06-2007, 06:39 PM   #6
Marty4
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Default Re: Rogues need to be nerfed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timber Loftis View Post
It doesn't take away from the truth of it.

Yes, it's a crappy lock, with crappy stats and crappy skills and crappy ratings.

But what he says is true. Seduce and fear were put on the same DR. Then they were both nerfed to be 10 secs max and, in PVP, have a high chance to break on damage (i.e. DoTs from someone with my stats WILL break PVP fear). Why wasn't the same done to rogues and their stuns and spell lockouts? Why can they still do unabated damage while you're stunlocked with no increase in the chance to break the stunlock? Alongside CloSkill, how's that fair.

Rogue murder clothies, and clothies chance to fight back has been negated. Note that as much as this lock whines, the situation is MUCH worse for a shadow priest.

Regardless, they buff and nerf all the time, I'll adapt. Whatever.
What you say is true, and I probably shouldn't have said the warlock line, since I pride myself in usually being the one to say "Warlocks aren't OP, get better". I mostly said it because he ends his argument with whining about how Warlocks are junk, which is total bull; Warlocks are generally considered to be the most powerful PvP class currently, and the poster is likely just an unskilled noob driven to making nerf posts instead of trying to get a clue.

Rogues do tend to have an advantage over clothies, though it didn't stop be from wtfpwning them on my priest when I played one, and on my paladin it is no contest. They're good, but you can outline the inherent strengths of any class... that doesn't make it overpowered.
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Old 09-06-2007, 06:51 PM   #7
SpiritWarrior
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Default Re: Rogues need to be nerfed

They got nerfed in this upcoming patch anyways *shrug*. Now hunters...that's another issue.
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Old 09-06-2007, 07:13 PM   #8
Kakero
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Default Re: Rogues need to be nerfed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Memnoch View Post
But from what I understand, a full stunlock build (Mutilate) is achieved at the cost of lower overall damage, right? And if you have Mutilate build you can't have Hemo or Preparation. The bloke above is assuming that a level 70 rogue will have access to EVERY talent in EVERY tree.
Emm..not really. Mutilate build can stunlock as well as maintain a high overall damage as long as the target can be poisoned. It's not uncommon to see a rogue dealing a 2k~4k mutilate crit hit on cloth wearers.

Last edited by Kakero; 09-06-2007 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 09-06-2007, 08:13 PM   #9
Memnoch
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Default Re: Rogues need to be nerfed

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Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior View Post
They got nerfed in this upcoming patch anyways *shrug*. Now hunters...that's another issue.

Oh? How?
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:35 AM   #10
SpiritWarrior
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Default Re: Rogues need to be nerfed

Sword/combat dps was nerfed a bit IIRC. And sap was brought down in duration in PvP. Still, pets don't chase you after using vanish anymore, which is a buff and nerf to other pet classes.

Nothing huge. I think the time of the really massive rogue nerfs is over with.
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