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Old 01-24-2002, 05:24 AM   #1
norompanlasolas
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well, enron's gone down and lots of employees have not only been laid off, but also lost all the money they had in actions for their pension plans. some have gone from having $300,000 to $1,000, and are being forced to sell their houses and try to survive.

the high execs of enron have been selling their stock for almost a year now, making huge fortunes out of it. andersen, the "auditor", shredded thousands of documents, with enron's help of course, and is now suspected of a plan to hide the losses of the energy giant.

what saddens me most is poor old georgie though. his mother in law lost $8,000 dollars in enron stock. now, thats a shame! he should talk to his old pal from enron, kenneth lay (who btw gave millions for his campaing), and work out something between the 2... but they probably did that a long time ago.

anyways, what are your opinions on this?

[ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: norompanlasolas ]

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Old 01-24-2002, 09:04 AM   #2
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Er, my opinion is that you are committing the error in logic known as "setting up a straw man." Yes, the President of the United States, the Hon. George W. Bush did accept campaign contributions from Enron. Does that make him their auditor? Nope. Does that make him privy to financial skuduggery of the worst kind? No. Some people seem to think that any stick will do to beat a dog.
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Old 01-24-2002, 10:44 AM   #3
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Galadria1, unfortunately, the Republican Congress under the last administration practiced a new smear tactic of deliberately demanding Clinton's resignation with every piece of news that implicated relatives or friends of the then-president. It was previously customary to attack a president's political positions; with Clinton, all-out war was declared upon his personal life, as well. I've read one exhaustively researched book that quoted samples from every dead dog that was laid at Clinton's doorstep. It was a carefully orchestrated campaign, costing in the multi-millions of dollars, and with a goal of never letting a day go by without having some new dirt to offer.

Since the Republicans reset the rules of engagement with Clinton, the Democrats feel justified in engaging in a feeding frenzy where Dubbyah is concerned. They're not as well organized and they lack the sheer viciousness of some of the key members of the former cabal (like the previous Republican House Whip, Knute Gingrich), but they're still new at this game. For better or worse, I expect to see an escalation of these tactics when circumstances permit, and whether Dubbyah deserves it, or not. And for all that I think he's a poor president in many respects, I don't think he deserves this.

[ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: fable ]

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Old 01-24-2002, 11:12 AM   #4
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Enron is an equal opportunity political mistake. Enron made major donations to both Republicans and Democrats.

People from both parties which sit on the committee investigating the Enron disaster accepted donations.
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Old 01-24-2002, 11:13 AM   #5
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first of all. all i mentioned about bush is his close affinity with mr lay and the insinuation that he probably knew what was going on at enron (a thing i am absolutely sure). so lashing out at that only implies that subconsciounsly you think he is involved.

besides, his involvment will be determined in the long run. but consider this facts. he is the president of the us. he was a good personal friend of the president of enron (he received millions in funding from him). he was president of an oil company when younger (one of the many companies he bankrupted while building his cv to be a president). his closest collaborators in the energy dept and other depts of the gov met with chief enron staff several times months before the bankrupcy. he received several phone calls from lay and other enron execs... yeah, he probably knew nothing about it.

second... who the heck is dubbyah???
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Old 01-24-2002, 02:21 PM   #6
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From the news I read today, apparently ENRON had far more influance with Ex-President Clinton than they ever had with our Current Commander in Chief, Dollar wise over the last 10 years like nearly EVERY other large corporation ENRON apparently gave money to both sides, however the Clinton administration (unlike Bush) Would regularly include Enron Exec's on his over seas junkets (at tax payer expense) and Also unlike the current Bush administration Ex-President Clinton Brokered the multi billion dollar deal that broke Enrons Back and started the slide to bankruptcy...that deal being the Hydro Electric Project in India which the Indian Power companies rennegged on once ENRON built the dam. Oh yes lets have FULL disclosure so we can see that oops its a giant conspiracy....brother! you anti-bush conspiarcy fans (short for fanatic dont ya know) really dont grasp how the world or politics or business works, Or perhaps you just dont have enough life experience in real world dealings to have a realistic view. Ahhh well

Believe what you want, but it wasn't Bush that forced the government to cover loans to ENRON that every commercial creditor refused.

Sorry this sounded too harsh and I didnt mean it to be nasty but I wrote it that way...In the US political system corporations give just as much money to the Dems as they do to the Republicans, They play both sides and to date there is NO indication that bush had any unusual dealings to ENRON or its collapse or the malfeasence perpetrated byu the company Execs. The Liberal Democrats are just as Rich and just as influenced by corporations as the republicans, none of them are driving Hyundai's or shopping at the dollar store. (talking about the politicians here)

[ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: MagiK ]

 
Old 01-24-2002, 02:24 PM   #7
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OOps I didnt notice that the guy who posted this is the guy who lives in SPAIN.....you always seem very very quick to make comments on things you aren't involved in...especially when it is to criticise the US conservative politicians....why not run for office and clean things up?
 
Old 01-24-2002, 02:54 PM   #8
fable
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Dubbyah was a way of referring to George W ("Dubbyah") Bush that arose during his presidential campaign, and remains in frequent use, today. It was apparently quite popular when he was running for Governor of Texas, as a means of separating the somewhat rigid but less forceful son from his daddy; and many of us still see him as best suited to that office.
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Old 01-24-2002, 03:07 PM   #9
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Dubbyah is both a term of affection and and..uhhh yeah...what fable said [img]smile.gif[/img] Course his detractors call him that too....
 
Old 01-24-2002, 06:01 PM   #10
norompanlasolas
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quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:
OOps I didnt notice that the guy who posted this is the guy who lives in SPAIN.....you always seem very very quick to make comments on things you aren't involved in...especially when it is to criticise the US conservative politicians....why not run for office and clean things up?


well, i dont think i have to be involved in anything to comment about it. if that was the case, discussions would indeed be very rare. and i critisice us conservative politicians because if i started trashing spanish conservative politicians here that would be a very lonely argument since nobody knows anything about them.

besides, i do that in rl (and not only talk)... the advantage of a forum is that you dont feel the canes of the riot police on your back... well, at least not so often, as it seems.

oh, and thank you, but i have absolutely no interest in running for office neither here nor in the us. [img]smile.gif[/img]
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