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Old 09-07-2001, 06:57 PM   #21

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Originally posted by Moridin:
I was going to say b/c we don't have live sex shows here, but I guess that might be disgusting to some

come on mods come and get me

WHEEH mammie he's teasing me again

But seriously
if i really had a choise i probably end up living in Swiss or France or Brittan
Somehow the US don;t seen that appealing

But about love it or leave it
something doesn't have to be perfect to love it
certainly not a country

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Here To Enlighten You
Old 09-07-2001, 07:04 PM   #22

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I Love america and have not once left it, yet. Same goes for the Earth. Some people can't tolerate the critism of others, particularly if that critism pushes upon something they hold dear. But since America was founded by people who were critical of their goverment,It's only natural. People who have a real impact in a society, be it positive or negative, just don't love it or leave it, they make it. George washington, Ben Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson didn't leave colonial America when they had a greivance against their goverment. They stayed, fought, and won.

[This message has been edited by G'kar (edited 09-07-2001).]
Old 09-07-2001, 07:15 PM   #23
Aelia Jusa
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Join Date: August 23, 2001
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Age: 37
Posts: 4,867
You're so right Diogenes. I made a comment like that in the other thread. It's much better to care enough about the future of your country to make constructive criticism, than just follow the government blindly, or be so indifferent as to not bother questioning anything at all.
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Old 09-07-2001, 07:19 PM   #24
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Originally posted by G'kar:
People who have a real impact in a society, be it positive or negative, just don't love it or leave it, they make it.
In a nutshell I think that sums it up - comment from the guy from the one of the nicest cities I have ever visited



[This message has been edited by Mouse (edited 09-07-2001).]
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Old 09-07-2001, 07:43 PM   #25
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true mouse but not evryone has the ability to make it and may not be able to leave it even in the US sadily enough.


Many blade cut weather they are mettle or wood, but the sharpest and deadlyist blade it the one of knowledge.
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Old 09-08-2001, 08:37 AM   #26
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Originally posted by Cloudbringer:
This is an interesting day on IW.

Tell me about it. It's been a fantastic day, lots of really awesome threads.

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Old 09-08-2001, 10:16 PM   #27
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Originally posted by Memnoch:
Tell me about it. It's been a fantastic day, lots of really awesome threads.
*snork* Ok. It's been an interesting day on IW!




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Old 09-08-2001, 11:29 PM   #28
Sir Taliesin
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Join Date: March 4, 2001
Location: Knoxville, TN USA
Age: 55
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Originally posted by Rikard:
Somehow the US don;t seen that appealing

You might change your mind if you ever visit. When you turn 18 and start to college, come over here and go to school.

Sir Taliesin

If they take my gun can I still use my Axe?
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Old 09-08-2001, 11:50 PM   #29
John D Harris
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Join Date: March 27, 2001
Location: Northport,Alabama, USA
Age: 57
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Very well stated, don't tell any of your liberal friends and I won't tell any of my conservative ones, OK?
This is the USA if want my right to free speach I must defend yours. I don't have to like it , but hey this is America. Peach on! You @#*&%$#*!&$^%@#*$&%^@(*@&#^$%!$#^%@ Liberal


"the memories of a man in his old age,
are deeds of a man in his prime"
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Old 09-09-2001, 12:11 AM   #30
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Join Date: September 8, 2001
Location: Yellow Springs, OH
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Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown:
Starting a separate thread on this. It grows out of the US perspective thread.

Some people basically voiced the old sentiment of "Love It or Leave It" in that thread. Apparently they were disturbed by criticisms of the US from Americans, and dusted off the old rhetoric about how criticisms meant those Americans didn't appreciate how their fathers and grandfathers and great great great grandfathers died for their freedom, etc.

Well, as an American critical of many aspects of US culture and government, I've got news for you. *Activates Rant Mode*

I LOVE this land I was born in, and which my family has lived since Colonial times. I love living in it, studying it, exploring it, learning about it, and participating in it. I love it SO MUCH, that I absolutely REFUSE to stand by, deaf and dumb and blind, while others destroy it! You got that?!? I love it so much I will not abandon it and flee somewhere else, but will stay and fight for it! I love it so much I will not ignore its problems! I love it so much I will not stick my head in the sand and pretend everything is just fine! I love it so much I will not fiddle while it burns down around me! I love it so much that I will search intensely for the causes of the problems, and root them out! I love it too much to sit back and watch it die, either here or in some far away other place!

"America, Love it or Leave It!" What a sick joke!

Try loving it so much that you do something about its problems instead!

*Deactivates Rant Mode*

First, Hello, I am new here. Second, I agree with the sentiment of fighting for what you believe in, although I don't subscribe to the nationalist sentiment posited here.

Here is a factually incorrect, but moving e-mail that made its rounds recently, that you folks may find interesting. It can mean one thing to patriots, and one thing to folks who believe in standing up for their beliefs, another thing to someone else, but maybe its interesting. To me it illustrates the rebellious nature of our deified forefathers. Here it is:

Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men who signed the
Declaration of Independence? Five signers were captured by the
British as traitors and tortured before they died. Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned. Two lost their sons serving in the Continental Army; another had two sons captured. Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or hardships of the Revolutionary War. They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor. What kind of men were they?
Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists. Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners; men of means, well educated. But they signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty would be death if they were captured. Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and trader saw his ships swept from the seas by the British Navy. He sold his home and properties to pay his debts, and died in rags.
Thomas McKeam was so hounded by the British that he was forced to move his family almost constantly. He served in the Congress without pay, and his family was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken from him, and poverty was his reward. Vandals or soldiers looted the properties of Dillery, Hall, Clymer, Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward, Ruttledge, and Middleton. At the battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson Jr., noted that the British General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson home for his headquarters. He quietly urged General George Washington to open fire. The home was destroyed, and Nelson died bankrupt. Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed.
The enemy jailed his wife, and she died within a few months. John Hart
was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying. Their 13 children
fled for their lives. His fields and his gristmill were laid to waste. For more than a year he lived in forests and caves, returning home to find his wife dead and his children vanished. A few weeks later he died from exhaustion and a broken heart. Norris and Livingston suffered similar fates. Such were the stories and sacrifices of the American Revolution. These were not wild-eyed, rabble-rousing ruffians. They were soft-spoken men of means and education. They had security, but they valued liberty more. Standing tall, straight, and unwavering, they pledged: "For the support of this declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of the divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other, our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor." They gave you and me a free and independent America. The history books never told you a lot about what happened in the Revolutionary War. We didn't fight just the British. We were British subjects at that time, and we fought our own government! Some of us take these liberties so much for granted, but we shouldn't. So, take a few minutes while enjoying your 4th of July holiday and silently thank these patriots. It's not much to ask for the price they paid. Remember freedom is never free! It's time we get the word out that patriotism is not a sin, and the Fourth of July has more to it than beer, picnics, and baseball games."

---End mail.



[This message has been edited by anomie (edited 09-09-2001).]
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