Holding Levels - when to stop?

[SpitBall]

Hey folks - just joined the forum, but I've been playing Wizardry since the 1980's on the old Apple IIe's. Been playing Wiz8 for about a month now. I'm on my fifth party. Others were ditched for various reasons - mostly related to the "learning curve". I play no mods, but am fully patched.

OK, here's the thing. I figured out the "holding levels" thing and used it to keep my party level fairly low so that I didn't get completely wasted the first time I tried to leave the monestery and cruise over to Arnika. I held a lvl 4, the had to move to 6 lvl (figured out by trial and error - plus extensive saving) to rescue Vi. Then I held at lvl 6 and was able to cover most of the planet. Again by saving and experimenting, I found those regions and beasts that were too tough for my lvl 6 party. Had to move up to lvl 10/11 to survive the Covert Ops training with the Umpani.

I still have not tried every area at lvl 11, but the Rattkin are kicking my ass in Trynton, although the Oak Saplings were a piece of cake.

Question is this: Given that levels are now further apart, is there anything to be gained by continuing to hold levels at this point?

Just because most want such info: I run a "classical" party of 6. Balancing fighting brawn with divine healing and wizardly spells.

Fifth party is: Dwarf Fighter - Elf Samuri - Human Priest - Hobbit Bard - Mook Mage (started as fighter to gain HP early) - Fairy Psionic. I trained the Samuri for fighting, until about lvl 9, then learned non-combat spells to begin the path toward magick. The priest will become a bishop at some point. The Mage takes care of most offensive combat spells and the psionic handles the spells that modify the opponents (armormelt, insanity, et al.).

[Scatter]

Nowadays i only hold in the Monastery, and there i just stay L5 until i've entered the Anika Road, where i take whatever levels have accrued--usually up to 8 for a solo or duo, and 6 or 7 for a trio or the rare foursome.

[SpitBall]

OK, but after that, do you hold at the lvl obtained on Arnika road, or take the lvls as they come?

I think that with a larger party, one can survive Arnika road at a lower level.

[Wereboar]

There is a drawbak with holding back levels: The monsters are of a lower level, so you don't gain as much experience as usual.

I played one type of party[1] (twice) where i stopped taking levels at level 11, until i had enough for 5 more levels. In the time between, i did the complete rapax areas, the mountain wilds, and much more. I didn't enter bayjin/unterwater areas, and the unexplored area in Mt.Gigas. But i've killed nessie with another party at level 12, so i assume level 11 should be enough for anything (maybe except ascension peak).

[1] The party is what i named 'infinity casters'. contains mage, priest, and alchemist, along with 2-3 other characters (say rogue and bard). I stop taking levels at 11 (for portal, some portection and offesnive magic). Then i make my way to ferro, to start buying infinity helmets and rejuvination robes. When i have enough XP, i swith the casters to samurai/lord/ranger, to use the helmets. I continue to play them as pure spellcasters (no melee, no other itmes they couldn't use as casters), except that i have great mana regeneration.

[Nightowl2]

As a rule, I usually only held levels until reaching Arnika (party being L5 on leaving monastery). After that, everyone went up in the normal fashion.

By the way, if the road is too difficult, you can always save before leaving the monastery, then reload that save if the critters are too tough. Enemies are generated randomly when you step outside, and sometimes you can get a bad mix, low level or not.

Nightowl2

[SpitBall]

Thanks Wereboar - In general however, I don't think I'm hurting for experience points. Put quite simply, survival is more important than experience!

Nightowl2 - I got bored trying to randomly generate weaker monster groups. Although, on the road between Arnika and Trynton, my lvl 6 party had to be quite skillful as far as combat (i.e. hiding in crevices and reloading for lesser monsters). Then when I got to Trynton - the tree sprites were Death defined. On the other hand, heading to the Umpani after Arnika was an easier trip (as long as I avoided the hogars!). After that experience building adventure, my "fighters" had more skills and better weapons and armor, plus every one of my characters could be quite effective with ranged weapons, so I could get the lvl 6 party to the T'Rang (I also think I picked up a few new spells via Books). Since taking them to lvl 11 in Gigas Caves, I haven't had too much trouble with the roads, but I still need to watch out for Cultists!

Based on this feed-back, I think I'll just take the levels as they come from now on.

[SpitBall]

Well, the Gigas Caves have me reconsidering the issue of holding levels - even after my last post. Three things have made me reconsider: 1) I was not expecting such a large increase in experience points for the monsters I now face, 2) even at lvl 13, I'm having serious difficulties in some locations - SE wilderness and the approach to Bayjin, for example, and 3) The major reduction in monster difficulty, i.e. level, I noted when I recuited lower level NPCs into my party. For #3, I had direct comparison, as I dropped Vi (who is at the same level as the rest of the party) and picked up Sparkle (who was at lvl 10, relative to the 13 of my party) and returned to the tunnels in Gigas Caves for some "training". The single change reduced the level of monsters - pestilent rats, rather than chameleon rats, for example, and cavern spiders, rather than the ensaring spiders. Later, I tried the same (from a previous save), but replaced Vi with BOTH Sparkle and Saxx. Saxx was a lowly level 8 when we started and I accepted only his levels as we adventured, so that he eventually caught up to Sparkle at lvl 11.

The monsters scaled with Saxx and went from Twilight Bats to Bat Vampires. Now, he's lvl 11 and we are routinely getting various Golems - mostly flint.

Why reconsider holding levels? Minimally, I'm holding the entire party for a given level until the last character earns that level, so the party progresses together. This way, I hope to avoid the fast developing fighter and bard from skewing the monster levels while the others are not close to the next step. If I took levels as earned, the Fighter would be two levels ahead of the Samurai (she's set-back a bit by chronic death in her earlier days). However, the experience with Saxx and Sparkle suggests that one can add the low-level NPCs as a kind of "ballast" to spawn lesser beasts.

[vesselle]

that's one way to do it. especially if it works for you.

i only hold to level 4 until i get to arnika, then after talking to lord braffit, i apply everything. get myles and vi and never hold back a level again.

i will change RPC's all the time, and don't give a hoot what level they are. because i'm just way more interested in the actual journey to AP and playing with other race/class combos that i'd never build myself. haven't had any problems playing this way since the day the game was released. sometimes i get surrounded with a coupla parties of icky monsters but it's no big deal.

so, for the most part, the gameplay is fun and tricky and requires a lil thot and planning. just like it should be. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Scatter]

I ran around with a dead L1 character as ballast for a couple games; my first trio, duo and solo. That really made things way too easy by the end.

[SpitBall]

My playing style is similar to Vesselle's and I tend to "push" the party into encounters with monsters that are tough for them. I was more than slightly shocked by the magnitude of the effect one lower-level character had on the monsters. On the other hand, I was slightly disappointed because the encounters were "easy" and I stood little chance of any one of the characters getting killed. Good training opportunity for the second-tier magick users, however, and excellent ranged training for the first stringers. Good time to trot out the "alternative" weapons, too.

Now, that I've had to ditch the NPCs for the underwater adventures - it may take 2 or 3 shots at a particular group of monsters before I can figure out the proper strategy for successful combat.