Liberals cheering the enemy?

[Magness]

Originally posted by Desdicado: Well I feel no shame in saying I wanted Iraq to win. Not through love of Saddam Hussein but just to show the US that it doesn't have the right to force its opinions on everyone else. It seems to me the US just can't accept that not everyone wants to be an American. Apparently, in opinion poles 33% of French folks wanted Iraq to win also, not often I agree with the french but there you go. Ah well, lets see how far Bush gets if he picks on North Korea. Actually i want you to win that one. Incidentally, I am not particularly a liberal.

So instead you wanted the US, a country with a democratically elected government, to lose to a country ruled by the will of a single meglomaniacal dictator because "it doesn't have the right to force its opinions on everyone else". So the "opinion" of a dictator to murder the citizens of his country is an "opinion" worthy of protection, while the "opinion" of a democratic country to free the millions of Iraqi civilians from this tyranny is not?

Anybody who thinks that that dictator's "opinion" that is even worthy of respect is himself holding an opinion that is also not worthy of respect.

[Reeka]

Originally posted by Desdicado: Well I feel no shame in saying I wanted Iraq to win. Not through love of Saddam Hussein but just to show the US that it doesn't have the right to force its opinions on everyone else. It seems to me the US just can't accept that not everyone wants to be an American. Apparently, in opinion poles 33% of French folks wanted Iraq to win also, not often I agree with the french but there you go. Ah well, lets see how far Bush gets if he picks on North Korea. Actually i want you to win that one. Incidentally, I am not particularly a liberal.

I am sure thought that you did not want to see anyone killed though? I really do not understand where you have gotten the impression that we think everyone wants to be an American? It seems to me if we wanted that, we would be perpretrating wars of agression on others nations constantly in order to expand our borders and colonizing the world for the USA through military means.

I will not argue that the image of "ugly American" has been earned over the years, but I don't believe most Americans assume everyone wants to be an American.

[Charean]

On the first topic - It seems to me that wishing for a blood bath in Iraq so we wouldn't have Bush in the White House for 4 more years is a bit self-serving and quite selfish. I am kinda shocked that anyone would feel that way. Sort of - "I want you to suffer now so I won't in the future."

As far as the US wanting everyone else to be American - it honestly makes me giggle. To think such a thing would be the height of ignorance. After all, most Americans are too busy worrying about their own lives to give thoughts of colonization any real consideration. I agree with Reeka, our actions don't match those thoughts.

I understand that France and Russia don't like the fact that the US military is bigger and better trained, but I do remember the Cold War with Russia. Russia did have a military at one time that was formidable, and they weren't ashamed to take over countries. Ironic how the US is painted with the same brush when it doesn't seem to be backed up with fact.

I am hoping with all sincerity that the US can help Iraq build a nation that Iraqis can be proud of - but only time will tell on that one.

[Grojlach]

Originally posted by Iron_Ranger: http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030418-2187342.htm *SNIP* article

Ah yes, and the opinion of one automatically implies... what?
This is almost as irrelevant as a war supporter yelling for nuking the Middle-East; they may think they represent the voice of many, but they are wrong.

[ 04-22-2003, 03:33 AM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

[Grojlach]

BTW - Off topic and just out of curiosity...
I was under the impression that liberalism doesn't automatically imply being of a certain political wing; being a liberal doesn't automatically imply being leftwinged and vice versa... I thought liberalism was a completely different way to reflect upon politics alltogether. For comparison, in my country, the Liberals are actually mostly right-winged.
Is it really that simple in the US, and are "all" the Liberals automatically leftwinged, or was the person writing the article merely throwing the people of political affiliations he doesn't like on the same pile?

[Iron_Ranger]

Originally posted by Grojlach: quote: Originally posted by Iron_Ranger: http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030418-2187342.htm I am sure alot of the left leaning people here at IW will be pretty pissed off at me posting this (and automaticlly assume I believe all Liberals think this way of course), but I am rather disguisted as this Kamiya guy. *SNIP* article

Ah yes, and the opinion of one automatically implies... what?
This is almost as irrelevant as a war supporter yelling for nuking the Middle-East; they may think they represent the voice of many, but they are wrong. [/QUOTE] Hm, strange, you sniped the artical but left my statement that CLEARY SAYS I dont think all liberals think that way.

[Grojlach]

Originally posted by Iron_Ranger: quote: Originally posted by Grojlach: quote: Originally posted by Iron_Ranger: http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030418-2187342.htm I am sure alot of the left leaning people here at IW will be pretty pissed off at me posting this (and automaticlly assume I believe all Liberals think this way of course), but I am rather disguisted as this Kamiya guy. *SNIP* article

Ah yes, and the opinion of one automatically implies... what?
This is almost as irrelevant as a war supporter yelling for nuking the Middle-East; they may think they represent the voice of many, but they are wrong. [/QUOTE] Hm, strange, you sniped the artical but left my statement that CLEARY SAYS I dont think all liberals think that way. [/QUOTE]Amusing coincidence, I was actually removing your statement from the quote in my post when you were posting this; as I wasn't trying to direct those words at you, but at the author of the article and some of the replies... My excuses for causing this misunderstanding.

[ 04-22-2003, 03:42 AM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

[Thoran]

Originally posted by Grojlach: BTW - Off topic and just out of curiosity... I was under the impression that liberalism doesn't automatically imply being of a certain political wing; being a liberal doesn't automatically imply being leftwinged and vice versa... I thought liberalism was a completely different way to reflect upon politics alltogether. For comparison, in my country, the Liberals are actually mostly right-winged. Is it really that simple in the US, and are "all" the Liberals automatically leftwinged, or was the person writing the article merely throwing the people of political affiliations he doesn't like on the same pile?

In my experience Liberals do tend to lean left... but they're not all left wing. I think some liberal ideals share common ground with leftist or socialist ideals. This is not to say that these are by default bad things... just that conservative republicans have almost nothing in common with the "left wing".

And then there's the Libertarians... who are an entirely different group from Liberals. They can be difficult to classify but IMO tend to have more in common with conservatives.

Originally posted by Reeka: I will not argue that the image of "ugly American" has been earned over the years, No more so than say ..."Snooty French", "Greaseball Italian" "Stupid Polls" "Militaristic German" or any one of a thousand other little "stereotypes". People should be no more free to rant about "ugly americans" than they are those other generalizations. Not picking on you Reeka [img]smile.gif[/img] just pointing out that "ugly american" is every bit as bad as those other stereo types people claim to hate.

[Rokenn]

Kamiya's comments are pretty much in the same league as Ann Coulter's comment after 9/11 that the hijackers should have landed a plane on the New York Times building.

As has been pointed out numerous times there are idiots on both sides of any debate.