Why NWN2 Online PW's will fail... and quickly.

Ziroc · 10-09-2006, 09:44 AM

I see all these grand plans for Massive online mods and such. Yet, they are going by what you COULD do (in NWN1). And they need to know what NWN2 cannot do.

The MAJOR online PW breaker is:

Ok, you have to have my mod on your system to play my mod online via my server. (NWN1 didn't require this unless it had custom content haks).

Ok, so I make a small change--move a torch. well, now you have to re-download the ENTIRE module again. (And in my EFU mod, I sometimes make 20 updates over 24 hours) so here is how NWN2 works: You MUST download the walkmesh data files every time I make even the simplest change to the mod--even 1 level of it.

Doing this once every few months for NWN1 is ok (for Haks), but people usually find the site, grab the haks and play. Ok, when the next update comes around every DAY, won't people get sick of downloading the files, then figuring out how to unrar/unzip them into the right dir? EVERY DAY?!? Sometimes up to 5 times a day? This is what will kill NWN2 online, and that is why I have NO current plans to make any mod for NWN2. I will continue making my mod in NWN1, and hell, NWN1 has more options than NWN2. More Monsters too. Nearly three times as many.

What they need to do, is add the auto-download feature or auto updater option so your client automatically downloads the new needed files. No fuss, no wasted time that pisses off players.

All the 'pretty' graphics and 'neato' toolset stuff in the world doesn't mean shit if it's implemented backwards.

If they fix this major issue, I'll for sure start getting the NWN2 EFU mod going. Just seems wrong.. I have bad vibes about this game. I hope I'm wrong.

SpiritWarrior · 10-09-2006, 10:26 AM

I also would add that the toolset *looks* like it sux. It looks like a proprietry piece of design software made only for develepors and not novice world-builders. When you open it you won't have the same intuitive process you had with the old aurora. It is not for those of us who want to "learn" the process but is more so for the designers who already knew it and were paid to know it. I guess I am saying it isn't for mainstream customers. It may well be able to do more but it is like they just released the tool they used to create the game without making that tool in any way user-friendly. All it was, was an attempt to shut people up so they couldn't say this wasn't Neverwinter Nights.

Ps. Yes I have used the new toolset. Reason I saw it looks like it sux is because I could be wrong in what it can do. What I do know is it will take us far longer to discover its capabilities than it did with the old one.

[ 10-09-2006, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: SpiritWarrior ]

Ziroc · 10-09-2006, 10:42 AM

DID NOT preorder, but I did try the toolset. It does seem like its not seamless like the old one did.. I am used to 3DS Max, so the craziness of it doesn't bug me, but yeh, its harder.

Just hope the fix that delivery system.

SpiritWarrior · 10-09-2006, 10:46 AM

Right, and I have heard others say it looks like 3dsmax also. That's fine for those who know it but many of us don't so we gotta invest time into the thing if we want to use it. Certainly doesnt seem like much thought was put into the toolset at all. I could just call Oblivion NWN's 2 if I wanted since that has a toolset.

Ziroc · 10-09-2006, 11:26 AM

Yup... Thats what was cool about NWN1. The toolset was easy to use.

And if I wanted to make a 3d Model for NWN2 (which you can't) it would require like 3-4 levels of textures for lighting, and multi-shaders. Pain in the ass.

Graphics, a game does not make. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Larry_OHF · 10-09-2006, 12:12 PM

I agree that I would not want to DL stuff everyday, but I know that constant updating and improving is something that keeps modules alive and interesting.

This is Halaster's Undermountain, for goodness sakes. Changing things around is part of the fun of Undermountain, in my opinion. We'd not expect Halaster to let us have the ease of knowing what to expect all the time.

Mozenwrathe · 10-09-2006, 04:12 PM

So you have tried out the toolset? I was thinking of doing the same, manly as I did do up a pre-order for NeverWinter Nights 2. I have to pay down on the rest of it, even if it's going to show in early November. I figure I'll just buy it and be done with it. Doesn't mean I won't be coming back here though. I figure I'll actually try to finish NWN2, however.

Harkoliar · 10-10-2006, 06:27 AM

gee hope they work things out.. im really looking forward to play this game myself

Ziroc · 10-10-2006, 05:33 PM

Yeah, I hope they fix the few things that could hurt it. I BADLY want this to be a hit.

I'm sure I'll buy it the day it comes out because I want to review it, and just see whats up. I'll let you know how it does. I'm very technical, so I will dig all around the game and see what works and what doesn't.

SpiritWarrior · 10-10-2006, 09:29 PM

I do too. It will hopefully be a good play at least, the OC part. Haven't played a good D&D game since NWN's 1 actually.

10-09-2006, 09:44 AM	#1
Ziroc Ironworks Webmaster *Bow to the Meow* Join Date: January 4, 2001 Location: Lakeland, Florida Age: 51 Posts: 11,720	I see all these grand plans for Massive online mods and such. Yet, they are going by what you COULD do (in NWN1). And they need to know what NWN2 cannot do. The MAJOR online PW breaker is: Ok, you have to have my mod on your system to play my mod online via my server. (NWN1 didn't require this unless it had custom content haks). Ok, so I make a small change--move a torch. well, now you have to re-download the ENTIRE module again. (And in my EFU mod, I sometimes make 20 updates over 24 hours) so here is how NWN2 works: You MUST download the walkmesh data files every time I make even the simplest change to the mod--even 1 level of it. Doing this once every few months for NWN1 is ok (for Haks), but people usually find the site, grab the haks and play. Ok, when the next update comes around every DAY, won't people get sick of downloading the files, then figuring out how to unrar/unzip them into the right dir? EVERY DAY?!? Sometimes up to 5 times a day? This is what will kill NWN2 online, and that is why I have NO current plans to make any mod for NWN2. I will continue making my mod in NWN1, and hell, NWN1 has more options than NWN2. More Monsters too. Nearly three times as many. What they need to do, is add the auto-download feature or auto updater option so your client automatically downloads the new needed files. No fuss, no wasted time that pisses off players. All the 'pretty' graphics and 'neato' toolset stuff in the world doesn't mean shit if it's implemented backwards. If they fix this major issue, I'll for sure start getting the NWN2 EFU mod going. Just seems wrong.. I have bad vibes about this game. I hope I'm wrong. __________________ Ziroc™ Ironworks Gaming Webmaster www.ironworksgaming.com The Great Escape Studios - 2D/3D Modeling www.tgeweb.com & Ziroc's Facebook Page Visit My Flickr Photo Album

10-09-2006, 10:26 AM	#2
SpiritWarrior Jack Burton Join Date: May 31, 2002 Location: Ireland Posts: 5,854	I also would add that the toolset looks like it sux. It looks like a proprietry piece of design software made only for develepors and not novice world-builders. When you open it you won't have the same intuitive process you had with the old aurora. It is not for those of us who want to "learn" the process but is more so for the designers who already knew it and were paid to know it. I guess I am saying it isn't for mainstream customers. It may well be able to do more but it is like they just released the tool they used to create the game without making that tool in any way user-friendly. All it was, was an attempt to shut people up so they couldn't say this wasn't Neverwinter Nights. Ps. Yes I have used the new toolset. Reason I saw it looks like it sux is because I could be wrong in what it can do. What I do know is it will take us far longer to discover its capabilities than it did with the old one. [ 10-09-2006, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: SpiritWarrior ] __________________ Still I feel like a child when I look at the moon, maybe I grew up a little too soon...

10-09-2006, 10:42 AM	#3
Ziroc Ironworks Webmaster *Bow to the Meow* Join Date: January 4, 2001 Location: Lakeland, Florida Age: 51 Posts: 11,720	DID NOT preorder, but I did try the toolset. It does seem like its not seamless like the old one did.. I am used to 3DS Max, so the craziness of it doesn't bug me, but yeh, its harder. Just hope the fix that delivery system. __________________ Ziroc™ Ironworks Gaming Webmaster www.ironworksgaming.com The Great Escape Studios - 2D/3D Modeling www.tgeweb.com & Ziroc's Facebook Page Visit My Flickr Photo Album

10-09-2006, 10:46 AM	#4
SpiritWarrior Jack Burton Join Date: May 31, 2002 Location: Ireland Posts: 5,854	Right, and I have heard others say it looks like 3dsmax also. That's fine for those who know it but many of us don't so we gotta invest time into the thing if we want to use it. Certainly doesnt seem like much thought was put into the toolset at all. I could just call Oblivion NWN's 2 if I wanted since that has a toolset. __________________ Still I feel like a child when I look at the moon, maybe I grew up a little too soon...

10-09-2006, 11:26 AM	#5
Ziroc Ironworks Webmaster *Bow to the Meow* Join Date: January 4, 2001 Location: Lakeland, Florida Age: 51 Posts: 11,720	Yup... Thats what was cool about NWN1. The toolset was easy to use. And if I wanted to make a 3d Model for NWN2 (which you can't) it would require like 3-4 levels of textures for lighting, and multi-shaders. Pain in the ass. Graphics, a game does not make. [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ Ziroc™ Ironworks Gaming Webmaster www.ironworksgaming.com The Great Escape Studios - 2D/3D Modeling www.tgeweb.com & Ziroc's Facebook Page Visit My Flickr Photo Album

10-09-2006, 12:12 PM	#6
Larry_OHF Ironworks Moderator Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Midlands, South Carolina Age: 48 Posts: 14,759	I agree that I would not want to DL stuff everyday, but I know that constant updating and improving is something that keeps modules alive and interesting. This is Halaster's Undermountain, for goodness sakes. Changing things around is part of the fun of Undermountain, in my opinion. We'd not expect Halaster to let us have the ease of knowing what to expect all the time. __________________

10-09-2006, 04:12 PM	#7
Mozenwrathe Symbol of Cyric Join Date: January 31, 2005 Location: Mississauga (Toronto), Ontario, CANADA Age: 48 Posts: 1,214	So you have tried out the toolset? I was thinking of doing the same, manly as I did do up a pre-order for NeverWinter Nights 2. I have to pay down on the rest of it, even if it's going to show in early November. I figure I'll just buy it and be done with it. Doesn't mean I won't be coming back here though. I figure I'll actually try to finish NWN2, however. __________________ There are no paths to power which are not fraught with confrontation. No matter the battle, a lesson must be won. In the end, the path shall fade into nothingness for the one walking it, but may go on for eternity for those whom choose to follow. One must know their own footsteps before taking that first step, or instead of choosing your battles, your battles will choose you.

10-10-2006, 06:27 AM	#8
Harkoliar Jack Burton Join Date: March 21, 2001 Location: Philippines, but now Harbor City Sydney Age: 41 Posts: 5,556	gee hope they work things out.. im really looking forward to play this game myself __________________ Catch me if you can..

10-10-2006, 05:33 PM	#9
Ziroc Ironworks Webmaster *Bow to the Meow* Join Date: January 4, 2001 Location: Lakeland, Florida Age: 51 Posts: 11,720	Yeah, I hope they fix the few things that could hurt it. I BADLY want this to be a hit. I'm sure I'll buy it the day it comes out because I want to review it, and just see whats up. I'll let you know how it does. I'm very technical, so I will dig all around the game and see what works and what doesn't. __________________ Ziroc™ Ironworks Gaming Webmaster www.ironworksgaming.com The Great Escape Studios - 2D/3D Modeling www.tgeweb.com & Ziroc's Facebook Page Visit My Flickr Photo Album

10-10-2006, 09:29 PM	#10
SpiritWarrior Jack Burton Join Date: May 31, 2002 Location: Ireland Posts: 5,854	I do too. It will hopefully be a good play at least, the OC part. Haven't played a good D&D game since NWN's 1 actually. __________________ Still I feel like a child when I look at the moon, maybe I grew up a little too soon...

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