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Old 11-19-2003, 09:24 PM   #31
Gangrell
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dalamar Stormcrow:
quote:
Originally posted by Charlie:
I've made my thoughts clear on this man? in the past, all I can say is I'm not suprised in the least.
Charlie. Ignorance and prejudice go hand in hand. Only three people know what happened. Micheal Jackson, our supposed victim, and God. It boils down to that. [/QUOTE]Dalamar, what you state could also be ignorance. You say that Charlie may be ignorant which he is not because he says that Jackson did do it, yet you are just as ignorant and prejudice for saying he may not have done it. Any opinion of yours concerning Jackson's innocence will also be shown as ignorant because you have no real evidence like the rest of us. Maybe, and I stress this, maybe back in the day in the 60's or 70's, maybe nothing really would have happened, but in this day and age, when a 40 yr old Peter Pan doesn't want to grow up and invites children to sleep in his bed, yea, kind of obvious.

Hmm and on Ziroc's comment about molestation to his son or daughter, or even if it were my own... I can't really say that I would shoot him, but yea I would beat him within an inch of his life, but that's me.

[ 11-19-2003, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: Gangrell ]
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Old 11-19-2003, 09:46 PM   #32
Cerek the Barbaric
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Quote:
Originally posted by Charlie:
quote:
Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
There were no charges filed in 1993. Despite the lawsuit, the police never felt there was enough evidence to even file charges or make an arrest. In fact, were it anyone but wacko jacko, we'd all be calling it a money-grubbing lawsuit targeting the wealthy.
The fact that the kid in question was paid some $13,000,000 or whatever to withdraw his allegations etc may have had something to do with it. Without the childs evidence there was no case. Any self respecting man would fight tooth and nail to defend himself from such a heinious crime if innocent, regardless of status, to have that smear removed. Wacko Jerko threw money at it, hoped it would go away and such things would never happen again.......hope he's got some throw away cash around.....(edit)NOT [/QUOTE]Even if Michael Jackson had fought the original allegations and allowed the case to go to trial, there is no garuantee that verdict of Innocent would actually remove the spectre of guilt. If you don't believer me, just ask O.J. Simpson. He was found innocent of first degree murder. So how many people believe he truly is innocent and justice prevailed...and how many believe that he got away with murder.

A public trial would not have changed anything for Michael Jackson. He can easily afford the best lawyers in the world (and - ironically - retained Johnny Cochran, one of O.J.'s lawyers), so most people would believe that his lawyers got him off. Either way, Michael Jackson's reputation is going to be smeared. The only difference is whether it is over and done with quickly, or whether it drags out on public TV for over a year. In the end, those who believe Jackson is guilty would still believe it and those who believe he is innocent would still believe that also.

That is why it was the best decision for him to go ahead and settle the case out of court.
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Old 11-19-2003, 10:01 PM   #33
Cerek the Barbaric
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vaskez:
I don't know any of the facts so won't comment on what I think he's done, however:

- I used to crawl into my parents bed even up to the age of 12 (prob older, but can't remember) to wrestle with my dad for a laugh etc. - nothing wrong with that, but as I said I don't know what Jacko got up to with the kid in bed - could've just been harmless wrestling? Who knows unless they were there?

- My dad used to dangle me over bridges over rivers for a laugh - what's wrong with that? Gave me a bit of a scare but was just a laugh - he was holding me tight. Nothing crazy about that.
Vaskez - there is a HUGE difference between a son climbing into his fathers' bed (or even vice versa) and a grown man sleeping in the same bed with young children he is not related to.

My oldest two boys are 7 and 5. It used to be a very common thing for at least one of them to wake up in the middle of the night and come climb in bed with my wife and I. For some reason, they always come to MY side of the bed. So I had to let them sleep in my spot. When that happened, I would usually just go and get in thier bed with the other son rather than trying to sleep comfortably in a full size bed with two other people. However, I would NEVER, EVER consider getting the same bed with any other child...not even my nephew. It just isn't a "normal" thing to do. It isn't "odd" for a parent and their child to share a bed (especially when the children are very young), but it is odd for a grown man to climb into bed with other peoples children.

As for dangling his baby over the railing, I addressed that extensively when it happened, but here is a quick recap. When a baby does not want to be held, they have a habit of doing a move I call the "Back Arch Slide". They press their feet against the person holding them, then they lift their arms straight up, and simultaneously press against the person with their shoulders and feet. this causes their back to arch and - if you don't have a VERY FIRM grip on them - will allow them to easily slide right out of your arms. I have come very close to dropping all 3 of my boys when I tried holding them with one arm hooked under both of theirs the way Michael Jackson held his baby when he placed him over the rail.

All I'm saying is that it would have taken less than a second for that baby to do the patented "Back Arch Slide" and - if he had done that - he would have fallen to his death. There would have been nothing Jackson could have done to prevent it. The ONLY way to prevent the child from sliding out of your arms when they do this is by hooking your OTHER ARM firmly between their legs. This not only stops the Back Arch, it also gives you a second handle to hold on to the baby with.

The bottom line is that Michael Jackson simply doesn't know Jack S*** about handling babies. I didn't watch the famous interview, but those that did said he was obviously very nervous and uncomfortable when he tried to hold and feed his baby on camera. I'm not faulting Jackson for this lack of knowledge, just saying that he had no idea how close he came to dropping his son(?) to his death in front of the entire world.
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Old 11-19-2003, 10:01 PM   #34
Charlie
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dalamar Stormcrow:


----------------------------

You have directed hostility towards Micheal Jackson and made an uninformed opinion about him. That defines prejudice.
I have made an informed opinion. The man paid vast sums of money to a minor to keep the case from court, an allegation he nor his lawyers have ever denied. He refused to go to court when allegations of paedophillia were filed against him. I have formed an opinion yes, It doesn't necessarily mean I'm prejudice against him. Let him stand before a court and be counted, as any innocent man faced with the same allegations would do. Jacksons actions lead me to my conclusions, I'm neither a complete ignoramus nor completely prejudicial, we could equally say you are non hostile and therefore prejudice of any facts laid in front of you bar those of your own opinions. Jacksons actions speak volumes, those are the non prejudicial facts I base my personal opinions on.
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Old 11-19-2003, 10:17 PM   #35
Cerek the Barbaric
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ziroc:
LOL... god, I read the records on this Whack-job, and the childs testamony, and I can just TELL the kid isn't lying. MJ needs to go to prison, and become bubba's friend. (hey, he wouldn't mind, right?)... Seriously, If he did this, he needs to burn, just as any offender that does this. If it was MY son or daughter, the guy wouldn't get a court date, the police called... none of that. He would get a few bullets through the head. dead.
I gotta agree with you 100% on this one, Ziroc. I will willingly accept the prison time and I will also accept God's Judgement for my actions...but if some monster molested one of my boys, the BEST thing he could do is turn himself in to the police before I have a chance to catch up to him.

Yes, that is a "Barbaric" attitude and is in direct conflict with my Christian values and morals. But when it comes to someone injuring my children, there is no such thing as rational thought. I will exact my vengence and I will accept the punishment of my actions.



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Old 11-19-2003, 11:07 PM   #36
Azimaith
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Quote:
Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
Since his debacle 9 years ago, "wacko jacko" has had 24-hour supervision just to avoid this sort of allegation. I have an aunt who loves kids and has 3. She babysits kids and will sit down and play with them. I'm sure that these kids try to crawl in her bed because, well, that's what kids do. But, she's not rich and famous and weird, so her house never gets searched, you see.

Wellard, I admonish you for declaring guild knowing absolutely nothing about the facts of the case. It's unlike you.
Also notice your Aunt did not have another "victim" come up and accuse her of child molestation did she? Nor did she pay the supposed victims family 15 million to drop the case, lets face it, if Jackson were innocent he could have gotten off by the justice system itself(no matter how corrupt you say it is) Take into accounts what hes got going for him: Hes rich, hes a minority group, he was and still is (with some) a popular singer, and the evidence against him would be childs word vs his unless of course they had more evidence against him. If they did have more then he probably was guilty don't you think. Paying off a family to drop it raises suspicions that there is truth to the childs claims. Personally I would have put him in jail for child endangerment after the baby dangling incident.

[ 11-19-2003, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: Azimaith ]
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Old 11-20-2003, 12:26 AM   #37
Timber Loftis
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This thread only reaffirms my notion as a lawyer that people rush to judgment without knowing any facts. We are less that 12 hours distant from the arrest warrant, less than 24 from the search warrant, and you folks have made up your minds. Which is exactly why if you were a jury, you'd get a 30 minute speech from the judge regarding the merits of "presumed innocent until proven guilty." It's a damned shame.
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Old 11-20-2003, 01:18 AM   #38
Charlie
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Quote:
Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
This thread only reaffirms my notion as a lawyer that people rush to judgment without knowing any facts. We are less that 12 hours distant from the arrest warrant, less than 24 from the search warrant, and you folks have made up your minds. Which is exactly why if you were a jury, you'd get a 30 minute speech from the judge regarding the merits of "presumed innocent until proven guilty." It's a damned shame.
Rubbish, we are 10 years on hearing the same song sung.
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Old 11-20-2003, 02:56 AM   #39
JrKASperov
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[quote]Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric:
Quote:
Yes, that is a "Barbaric" attitude and is in direct conflict with my Christian values and morals. But when it comes to someone injuring my children, there is no such thing as rational thought. I will exact my vengence and I will accept the punishment of my actions.
You are actually very mild one this... When I heard that a friend of mine got raped, I wanted to torture the bastards, for half a year, locked up in my basement, every hour, another cut somewhere... another sick twisted way of unending pain. That's how bad it can really get...
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Old 11-20-2003, 03:46 AM   #40
Chewbacca
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I'm seated comfortably with the innocent until proven guilty crowd. MJ might be a weird-o-naut, but until a judge and/or jury hears the facts and makes a ruling in this case, I'm staying flatly neutral. Especially due to the potential of charges being sought in the interest of profiting.
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