hardest battle

[Yorick]

How could I have forgotten that one. The silly thing about that is, if you're a Bard, you're going to do that quest first right? Well it seems a pretty hard task for a Bard first up. The main fighters are our ever friendly NPCs.

I think this last time as a Jester I made sure I mass invis'd everyone and moved around to the Wyvern first, making sure I didn't fight any thralls so that they would fight for me later on.

I know that this game gives a different experiance to different people. So I was curious to see which battle you guys had the most trouble with.

[Memnoch]

We had a post on this a while back but it's good to revive it for the newbies. I'll just put a SPOILER title on it though so people don't accidentally find out about a battle they haven't yet fought.

WARNING: THIS THREAD CONTAINS SPOILERS...................
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The Twisted Rune battle was the toughest one for me, i was only about 10-11 level at the time and was fighting two mages that could cast gate and time stop (the lich Shangalar was 27th level! and the other one 24th), an elder orb beholder, shyressa the vampire who was an 23rd level mage, a Rune assassin...am i missing anything else? oh yeah, two pit fiends who thankfully fought each other. i reloaded about 10 times before i beat them WITHOUT cheating.

Others that come to mind are the mind flayer lair in the underdark and the adventurers at the Den of the Seven Vales when i just came out of Irenicus dungeon.

[Yorick]

I think that depends on what time you do a battle. I missed the twisted Rune battle with my favourite Monk, so when I came upon it during a later game, I imported the Monk and beat them all alone.
But there were early battles that seemed nigh impossible. I just couldn't beat the Gaurths (or whatever they're called) in the Unseeing eye quest as I did it early on. Same with Firkraag. Came back to Firkraag later and got him.

[Desdicado]

Firkraag wasn't too bad, beat him by lots of summon monster spells and ranged weapons.
Kangaax was the hardest I reckon.

Hmm it must be Firkraag. That's the one I reloaded the most. Not that I didn't beat him in the first 2-3 times I tried but in one of those times Aerie was thorn to pieces. The other time Pit Fiend killed him and I didn't get the exp. I reloaded more than ten times to kill him without any casulties.

With Kangaxx I got lucky. At my second try Minsc outright killed him with Mace of Disruption+2.

Rune was easy too. Again I beat them at second try. I didn't walk too far so the mage in the back didn't join the battle. I got insect plague to stick on Shangalar which turned him into a fragile wuss. I put Minsc on the Vampire and again with the mace of d.(this wasn't an outright kill tho) and I guess vampires being his racial enemy he died quick enough. I put the rest of the party on assasin and took him out rather quick. Than concentrated on beholder. I have to confess my tho my main char, Minsc and Yoshi had 5 potions of extra healing each and they finished the battle with 2, 1, 1 potions respectively.

I think the difficulty of the battles depend on when you face the major mobs of the game tho. The guys at the Den for example took 1-2 less reloads than Firkraag cause I attacked them right after I came to Athkatla. And for example Balor last night was a pushover. He didn't even do any damage, just stuned a few and I waited 2x more for the stuns to go away than the time it took to beat him.

Ah I just remembered the final battle in Astral Prison took some reloads as well.

Hmm I'd say the hardest battles I have are againt the mindflayers, are these guys just a pain or what, and the liches or extremely difficult as well.




**********SPOILER*************






Firkraag and the Shadow dragon went down in one second of battle. I guess enough booby traps will kill anything quite fast if you lay enough down. Just lay all the traps you can, camp and repeat until a literal pit of death lies beneath them. So nice of them to give you a little shadow stone to do it without getting seen, and it can't be considered a cheat. And Firkraag just sits there and watches you as you set these things. For a red dragon, they sure didn't make him very intelligent.

Warning ! This post is one big spoiler for those that have not been through most of it, especially if you agree that figuring out how to beat "new" monsters is one of the major challeges of the game. I go very much into detail on that in this post.




I finished the game for the first time yesterday and thought I had been quite "thorough", having done almost all quests available. Yet, on this board I keep reading about battles I have never been through.

For instance, what is the "twisted rune battle" ? The only runes I can remember were the ones guarding the door to the planar sphere machine room. Fortunately, I guessed the right order to touch them on my first try, so that I never had to face the guardians of that room. Would that have been the frighteningly powerful group you mentioned, Memnoch ? And how did you get that exact information bout their levels from ? Shadowkeeper ?

The other group, you mentioned, was that the one in the "other" inn in the bridge
district, that was so obviously looking for trouble? Well, I felt that it was not proper roleplaying for a good party with a responsible leader with charisma and intelligence 19 to fall for such an obvious provocation, so I never fought those guys, either. Was the same with the Mindflayer and Beholder dungeons in the Underdark: after I had already stumbled upon and cleared out the
Kuo Tan dungeon before ever entering the Drow City, later, after getting the three quest options and already having got what I needed, I felt it roleplayingwise impossible to justify to do the other two quests as well:
"Well, guys, there is really no need for it, but let's just go face two dungeons full of two of deadliest species of monsters in all of the Realms just for the fun, the exp. points and the goodies. I am bored, anyway." - "Okay, boss, but what are exp. points ?"
Maybe if Minsc had been my party leader or some rather fanatic, but dumb paladintype. Also I had grown a little bit afraid of mindflayers at that time, I must admit that. I never had had to try more than twice in my previous encounters with mindflayers, but always felt I had got a little lucky, instead of having them really "figured out". Later on, I read on this board
about using "Animate Dead" against them and those Skeleton Warriors surely worked wonders for me when I did the little mindflayer dungeon in the sewers after having returned from the underdark.
Anyway, back to the topic of this thread and, yes, there were some fights even I could not and did not want to avoid: if I take the times I had to reload before I managed to win a battle as the standard by which to judge its toughness I think there have been only four battles for which I had to reload more than once(well, not counting the instances when reloading was a clear result of my having grown too arrogant and careless after having won too many consecutive encounters easily or of the A.I. messing up big time rather than a result of the power of the opposition):

1. the gang in the sewers under the temple district:

I reloaded 6 times during my first go at them before I gave up. The last time there were only two of them left (one of them severely injured) as well as Jaheira(badly injured) and my fighter/mage ( up to over 200 hps thanks to "Vampiric Touch" - the ideal spell for a fighter/mage). The problem was that first Jaheira would not make that one decisive hit to dispose of the injured foe for 5plus rounds and consequently got herself
killed. Secondly, my wonderful 200plus hps fighter/mage had not levelled up enough yet to have regained his fighter skills and was out of any useful offensive or protective spells
(protection from petrification just did not seem the right spell for that situation !), so all he was left with was his pathetic mage thac0 and his little dagger. Cruelly,
the two remaining opponents were now themselves suffering from "Jaheira's syndrome" and because of that it took them seemmingly forever to ever so slowly hack my almost helpless pc to pieces. Boy, was I frustrated !!! I think this group was also the only enemy who ever managed to kill every single member of my party and that more than once.

Well, I returned not much later, but in the meantime my pc had gained that one extra level to become a true fighter/mage and I had picked up Keldorn who will get my vote for most valuable npc any time - even before he gets the Holy Avenger. This time, I beat them
in my first - seventh all in all - try, but it was still a tough battle. These guys just know how to deal out a great amount of damage quickly. It was also the first time I faced a high level mage in the game. Magic is clearly the part of the game that changed the most with respect to BG I, just think of all those new protection, protection from magic and protection removal spells. In BG I
I found almost all mages to be rather pushovers. You just had to gun at them with range weapons and they were gone, most of the times before having ever gotten any offensive spell off.The only ones I had trouble with were the assassin mage in Nashkell and the first group you encountered
in the island prison dungeon in ToSC. Both mostly because they had a very intelligent A.I. script.

The topic of the much more powerful mages in BG2 leads me to my second especially hard battle:

2) Tanova the mage vampire the first time around in Bohdi's dungeon: after I had fought
my way through almost the entire upper level without any major problem (a fighter/mage with the amulet of power as main tank really worked wonders) I ran into that talented undead lady thinking "just another female vampire she will just cast "Domination" on my pc upfront, but he is wielding Lliarcor, so what ? ". Well, I did learn quickly that she was just a little bit more powerful than just your typical female vampire next door. She introduced me to the wonders of "Spelltrap" and the high level area-effect stun and fear spells. It took me a couple of reloads to figure out that while "Spelltrap" contrary to the lower level magic protection spels does grant protection from area-effect attack spells and I had certainly
nothing in my arsenal to remove it, Keldorn's
superpowerful disspell magic - for that alone he deserves that most valuable npc title, it bailed me out countless times - does get through to rid her of her protections against physical damage. From there on, it was easy again, just back to BG I and gun her down as fast as possible. By the way, that easy tactic also explains why I never quite
understood all the fuss about how tough liches are that is made on this board.
Unfortunately, while very effective this tactic also remained my only possible chance against "Spelltrap"-users throughout the game, because I found only one scroll with a protection from magic removal spell high enough to remove "Spelltrap", I think, it was
"Rubin Ray". At that time, I did not realize that those spells are so scarce, and had my mage (Intelligence 19, 95 % chance to learn spells) just try to write it in his spellbook without previously bolstering my chances by quaffing a potion. Well, gone it was ...

3) Of course, that terribly fast, simultaneously spellcasting(again that nasty area-effect stun spell)and attacking (five attacks/round ?, very good thac0) balor in the underdark. My solution (after three reloads): My fighter/mage, hasted, casting Tenser's Transformation (270 hps), protected by "Chaotic Commands", various stoneskins and mirrorimage spells. Everybody else just stood back and held their breath. Seemed like a sure thing, but my PC still was down to 70 hps before that demon decided it was time to die.
By the way, does anyone know why the balors you encounter later on (elven city, hell) are such cheap excuses for a balor compared to the first one (no spellcasting, slow, low hps)?

4)Just seem not to be able to remember the fourth one anymore right now. Ah well, here it is: the first four gauths you come across during the Unsseeing Eye Quest: I just was not aware that spellcasting at that speed existed. Gauths are very vulnerable to holding spells as I learnt afterwards, but their ability to deal out damage that fast
does sure not give you much time to learn during a first chance encounter. Of course, once you got "Globe of Invulnerability" you are safe. Unfortunately, I never came across any of the spell reflection items everybody is talking about on this board. Another problem I had with gauths is that their attacking pattern is among the rather intelligent ones compared to most monsters:
they do not just target one or two guys upfront but will also go for your spellcasters in the back, which is especially nasty, since casting "Hold monsters" or "Chaos" is the most effective way I could find early on in the game to stop them fast from damaging you. And at that point it is difficult to protect your spellcasters properly. By the way, does anyone know the difference between a beholder an an elder
orb ? I think, they are even worth the same amount of exp. points.

I obviously have got a tendency for rather long posts, but I always enjoy having the opportunity to write in English. So, sorry, if I bored anybody to death.

So long,

Ramon

I think my hardest battle was against firkraag. I took both Kangaxx & The Twisted Rune in first try(Chapter 3), but my brother helped me. The adventures was also a bit though, because they managed to fear 1 & 2 of my characters, who ran south to the Rakshasa, and the BAM. So i just killed him first, no big deal.

I killed the Twisted Rune one by one, mostly with ranged weapons, the headmage with traps (You cant rest in there, but i didn't had to).
The i bougth a protection from magic scroll, and wacked Kangaxx with The Holy Avenger and Sunstone Bullets and a +3 sling.

Firkragg was a pain i the ass, but i combined some summoning, traps and good ol' Man to Man combat,it worked pretty good.

[Memnoch]

To Ramon, the Twisted Rune is kind of like an Easter Egg, like Kangaxx, it's not related to any specific quest but rather you stumble onto it (like an Easter Egg!)

There's a building in the southwest part of the bridge district that you need a rogue stone to get into. that's where the rune are. And i got their levels from Infinity Explorer, plus i had a look online at some AD&D modules about the Twisted Rune because i was a bit curious about them.