Survival Guide for a HoF-from-scratch party (spoilers) - Page 5

Aerich · 01-12-2006, 08:40 PM

Yeah, I'll have CC on, but I've got about 2 slots for it. Decisions, decisions.

The reason for having strategies to deal with horror is that one successful casting of it can blow a tactical strategy to pieces and force you to improvise. This fight is not a good fight in which to improvise because of the three significant casters and hordes of lesser undead - if you can't start disrupting the casters right away, the party is in trouble. At least, that was my experience on Insane.

Aerich · 01-12-2006, 11:37 PM

Well, I just did the fight and it went well. The lich was mostly disrupted throughout the fight - the only spell it got off was animate dead (terrifying!

).

I had a fire elemental leading the way, and it got hit twice by mummies' flame strikes (aah, the intelligence of the AI). Despite my disruption efforts (bow of sseth, 4 acid arrows, 2 entangles, 2 spike growth, assorted other missiles), each greater mummy also managed to cast symbol of hopelessness. However, what with the luck song and the huge spell boosts to saves (Hope, Courage, PfE, Recitation, Prayer, Bless, + Chaotic Commands and/or Entropy Shield on certain characters), all saves were made. The fire elemental succumbed to a Symbol, but that was ok since the lich just went to attack it in melee, nicely taking it out of the fight for a few rounds.

ister · 01-13-2006, 08:57 AM

I'm afraid I still don't understand your concerns with "horror" (or indeed "symbol fear"). As long as you cast remove fear you are immune. "Remove Fear" has a much longer duration than spells like bless and prayer, so it doesn't much get in the way of your buffing. It's first level so it's not like it takes up a really valuable spell slot. Heck I think it's the most important clerical buff.

Horror to me is never a threat. I just have to remember to pre-buff and then it's just a wasted spell. Unless of course the script throws out a "dispel magic" before the "horror", in which case I'd certianly understand your concerns! But I don't remember the Dorn's lich ever dispelling my buffs.

Aerich · 01-13-2006, 11:59 AM

Well, every general fights the last battle, not the current one. Last time I went through on Insane, I think the lich cast two Horrors, or at any rate cast one after the duration of Remove Fear ran out; at one point I had three key characters running for cover and unable to cast, including all my characters with anti-fear spells memorized. I suppose I could have just used the mage spell Resist Fear because it has a longer duration. I'd rather take damage in a fight than have a character unavailable to act.

However, no matter the anti-Horror techniques you use, the critical thing is to disrupt all three casters ASAP because they all have destructive spells.

Analyzing the fight, I had to have a little luck for my strategy to work perfectly (made my saving throws).

[ 01-13-2006, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: Aerich ]

Dundee Slaytern · 01-13-2006, 09:24 PM

Fear should be the least of your concerns, especially if you have a Bard. Memorising a couple of Resist Fears ain't gonna dent your Bard's overall contribution to the team.

Aerich · 01-14-2006, 12:54 AM

It wasn't a problem. [img]smile.gif[/img]

This was actually a far easier fight than I anticipated it would be. Good disruption strategy + all saves made + no threat of being overrun in melee = easy.

The game gets easier the more I play it, because I tend to micro-analyze all the areas in which I've had problems before. The magic-resistant bronze sentries weren't much of a threat this time - I summoned 6 elementals to keep them busy while I took them on one at a time in melee with 5 characters.

The only problem area in Wyrm's Tooth was coming back up the stairs after freeing the slaves. Lots of Resist Fire/Cold, plus a Greater Command and Chaos took the pressure off, and a Storm-Shelled polar bear shapechange was incredibly effective as a cold-immune damage dealer. I suppose the tactically easier way to go about re-entry would be to leave by the lower door after the slaves, then go to the main entrance again from the outside (only 2 salamanders, instead of the 4 salamanders + trolls and wolf at the interior staircase).

The frost giants and humongous amounts of experience await...

[ 01-14-2006, 12:55 AM: Message edited by: Aerich ]

Klorox · 01-14-2006, 01:27 AM

What does your party look like Aerich?

Aerich · 01-14-2006, 01:43 AM

Party has just over 2.1 million xp each at the end of chapter 5 (Wyrm's Tooth).

1) Paladin, lvl 15, with longsword, flail, halberd, and bow
2) mc Ranger/Cleric, lvl 11/12, mace, hammer, sling
3) mc Fighter/Druid, lvl 12/13, scimitar, club, spear, sling
4) mc Fighter/Mage, lvl 12/12, bow, greatsword, hammer, crossbow
5) mc Fighter/Thief, lvl 12/14, bow, axe, dagger, longsword
6) Bard, lvl 19

Klorox · 01-14-2006, 08:27 AM

Wow, cool! I'm honestly quite surprised to not see any dualclassed guys in there. The party will get a big boost in power when those fighters reach level 13!

Aerich · 01-15-2006, 12:15 AM

I made a conscious decision not to use any dual classes, because I knew I'd need all the spell support and archer power I could muster in the early going. I also tried to make it so that 5 of the 6 characters were relatively deadly in melee and from range at all times.

I'll get a bigger boost when my divine casters hit lvl 14 and gain access to 7th lvl spells.

01-12-2006, 08:40 PM	#41
Aerich Lord Ao Join Date: May 27, 2004 Location: Canada Age: 42 Posts: 2,061	Yeah, I'll have CC on, but I've got about 2 slots for it. Decisions, decisions. The reason for having strategies to deal with horror is that one successful casting of it can blow a tactical strategy to pieces and force you to improvise. This fight is not a good fight in which to improvise because of the three significant casters and hordes of lesser undead - if you can't start disrupting the casters right away, the party is in trouble. At least, that was my experience on Insane. __________________ Where there is a great deal of free speech, there is always a certain amount of foolish speech. - Winston S. Churchill

01-12-2006, 11:37 PM	#42
Aerich Lord Ao Join Date: May 27, 2004 Location: Canada Age: 42 Posts: 2,061	Well, I just did the fight and it went well. The lich was mostly disrupted throughout the fight - the only spell it got off was animate dead (terrifying! ). I had a fire elemental leading the way, and it got hit twice by mummies' flame strikes (aah, the intelligence of the AI). Despite my disruption efforts (bow of sseth, 4 acid arrows, 2 entangles, 2 spike growth, assorted other missiles), each greater mummy also managed to cast symbol of hopelessness. However, what with the luck song and the huge spell boosts to saves (Hope, Courage, PfE, Recitation, Prayer, Bless, + Chaotic Commands and/or Entropy Shield on certain characters), all saves were made. The fire elemental succumbed to a Symbol, but that was ok since the lich just went to attack it in melee, nicely taking it out of the fight for a few rounds. __________________ Where there is a great deal of free speech, there is always a certain amount of foolish speech. - Winston S. Churchill

01-13-2006, 08:57 AM	#43
ister Drow Warrior Join Date: January 12, 2005 Location: usa Age: 56 Posts: 291	I'm afraid I still don't understand your concerns with "horror" (or indeed "symbol fear"). As long as you cast remove fear you are immune. "Remove Fear" has a much longer duration than spells like bless and prayer, so it doesn't much get in the way of your buffing. It's first level so it's not like it takes up a really valuable spell slot. Heck I think it's the most important clerical buff. Horror to me is never a threat. I just have to remember to pre-buff and then it's just a wasted spell. Unless of course the script throws out a "dispel magic" before the "horror", in which case I'd certianly understand your concerns! But I don't remember the Dorn's lich ever dispelling my buffs. __________________ \" Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.\"<br />JFK

01-13-2006, 11:59 AM	#44
Aerich Lord Ao Join Date: May 27, 2004 Location: Canada Age: 42 Posts: 2,061	Well, every general fights the last battle, not the current one. Last time I went through on Insane, I think the lich cast two Horrors, or at any rate cast one after the duration of Remove Fear ran out; at one point I had three key characters running for cover and unable to cast, including all my characters with anti-fear spells memorized. I suppose I could have just used the mage spell Resist Fear because it has a longer duration. I'd rather take damage in a fight than have a character unavailable to act. However, no matter the anti-Horror techniques you use, the critical thing is to disrupt all three casters ASAP because they all have destructive spells. Analyzing the fight, I had to have a little luck for my strategy to work perfectly (made my saving throws). [ 01-13-2006, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: Aerich ] __________________ Where there is a great deal of free speech, there is always a certain amount of foolish speech. - Winston S. Churchill

01-14-2006, 12:54 AM	#46
Aerich Lord Ao Join Date: May 27, 2004 Location: Canada Age: 42 Posts: 2,061	It wasn't a problem. [img]smile.gif[/img] This was actually a far easier fight than I anticipated it would be. Good disruption strategy + all saves made + no threat of being overrun in melee = easy. The game gets easier the more I play it, because I tend to micro-analyze all the areas in which I've had problems before. The magic-resistant bronze sentries weren't much of a threat this time - I summoned 6 elementals to keep them busy while I took them on one at a time in melee with 5 characters. The only problem area in Wyrm's Tooth was coming back up the stairs after freeing the slaves. Lots of Resist Fire/Cold, plus a Greater Command and Chaos took the pressure off, and a Storm-Shelled polar bear shapechange was incredibly effective as a cold-immune damage dealer. I suppose the tactically easier way to go about re-entry would be to leave by the lower door after the slaves, then go to the main entrance again from the outside (only 2 salamanders, instead of the 4 salamanders + trolls and wolf at the interior staircase). The frost giants and humongous amounts of experience await... [ 01-14-2006, 12:55 AM: Message edited by: Aerich ] __________________ Where there is a great deal of free speech, there is always a certain amount of foolish speech. - Winston S. Churchill

01-13-2006, 09:24 PM	#45
Dundee Slaytern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore Age: 41 Posts: 11,063	Fear should be the least of your concerns, especially if you have a Bard. Memorising a couple of Resist Fears ain't gonna dent your Bard's overall contribution to the team.

01-14-2006, 01:27 AM	#47
Klorox Symbol of Cyric Join Date: August 21, 2004 Location: USA Age: 48 Posts: 1,168	What does your party look like Aerich? __________________ Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu! "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."-- Edmund Burke

01-14-2006, 01:43 AM	#48
Aerich Lord Ao Join Date: May 27, 2004 Location: Canada Age: 42 Posts: 2,061	Party has just over 2.1 million xp each at the end of chapter 5 (Wyrm's Tooth). 1) Paladin, lvl 15, with longsword, flail, halberd, and bow 2) mc Ranger/Cleric, lvl 11/12, mace, hammer, sling 3) mc Fighter/Druid, lvl 12/13, scimitar, club, spear, sling 4) mc Fighter/Mage, lvl 12/12, bow, greatsword, hammer, crossbow 5) mc Fighter/Thief, lvl 12/14, bow, axe, dagger, longsword 6) Bard, lvl 19 __________________ Where there is a great deal of free speech, there is always a certain amount of foolish speech. - Winston S. Churchill

01-14-2006, 08:27 AM	#49
Klorox Symbol of Cyric Join Date: August 21, 2004 Location: USA Age: 48 Posts: 1,168	Wow, cool! I'm honestly quite surprised to not see any dualclassed guys in there. The party will get a big boost in power when those fighters reach level 13! __________________ Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu! "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."-- Edmund Burke

01-15-2006, 12:15 AM	#50
Aerich Lord Ao Join Date: May 27, 2004 Location: Canada Age: 42 Posts: 2,061	I made a conscious decision not to use any dual classes, because I knew I'd need all the spell support and archer power I could muster in the early going. I also tried to make it so that 5 of the 6 characters were relatively deadly in melee and from range at all times. I'll get a bigger boost when my divine casters hit lvl 14 and gain access to 7th lvl spells. __________________ Where there is a great deal of free speech, there is always a certain amount of foolish speech. - Winston S. Churchill

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