IWD2 -- thinking of giving it a serious try

[Klorox]

What patches are needed and mods suggested? What order do they go in?

Also, what do you think of this party?:

CG Dwarf Cleric (Tempus) X (Tank/Healer)

LG Human Monk X (Scout, plus I heard they're really cool in this game)

LG Aasimar Paladin 2/Sorcerer X (I wouldn't take the Paladin levels until I had the spell Fireball. Also, am I better with 1 level since the "Resist Fear" might go to waste with a Sorcerer staying towards the back of the party?)

CN Drow Bard X (sounds like a weird combo, but they've got the perfect stat bonuses for it! Also, which class compliments the Bard better, Cleric or Wizard? I can't decide whether or not I want this character to be Male or Female, and I might consider dipping into one of these classes for a few spells and powers. If I go Male, and choose 1 level of Enchanter, do I get a bonus to Enchantment spells cast as a Bard?)

LN Human Monk 1/Druid X (I'm not positive I'll add that one Monk level, but if I like shapeshifting, the WIS bonus should appy to AC when shifted, which is a cool ability!)

CG Drow (Male) Fighter 4/Barbarian 3/Rogue 3/Wizard X (This is my second scout, along with the Monk. I'm not sure if I'll ever add those Wizard levels, or if I'll just improve the other levels a bit more)

[Black Swan Gauntlet]

The Paladin/Sorcerer might be a mistake. There is a kit for paladins called 'Paladin of Mystra' which enables you to add wizard levels without forfeiting the paladin class, which you might prefer. I also wouldn't spread out your levels on the Drow much...you're already stretched thin for levels from the ECL adjustment, so exploring a few classes might make him pretty weak.

[Aerich]

1) Dwarf Cleric - fine. Be warned that it's tough to tank and heal at the same time, so I'd recommend a back-rank healer.

2) Human Monk - a monk lacks survivability to start. The best "power" monks are deep gnomes, because of the +4 AC, but they take longer to develop because of the ECL penalty. Just look at them, though. A racial increase to Dex and Wis is perfect for monks, and additional magic resistance makes for one impervious monk at higher levels. The key to using monks is to use them as a kind of light cavalry/archer to begin with. If you want to send them into heavy melee combat they should be pumped full of the best spells you can muster and amply provided with healing potions.

3) A Pally/Sorc is fine. Be warned that by taking two levels you will significantly delay the development of the sorceror class. One level of paladin might be preferable, but I can think of at least a couple places where the Aura of Courage (or whatever it's called) is really useful. I'm not really in favour of the Paladin of Mystra because you have to make some really tough decisions regarding where to put your stat points. A drow pally/sorc can, to some extent, pillage stat points from Wis.

4) Drow Bard - could be interesting - Wizard complements it better, IMO, because you can always use skill points with a bard/wizard type. Be warned that if you choose a specialist wizard such as an enchanter, you will take an experience penalty. If male, the drow's favoured class is (non-specialist) wizard, so that would work better, I think. A Rogue[2-3]/Wizard[x] might be better for this spot, unless you're set on using a bard. A race without an ECL penalty might also be preferable here, because you aren't going to get many bard spells.

5) Druids are fine, but I'm not sure I'd take a monk level just for shapeshifting. I've always found shapeshifting a little under-powered (unless using a particular mod), and buggy besides.

6) Drow Fighter/Barb/Rogue/Wizard/etc - takes a long time to develop and takes its power more from versatility and race than from class-based powers. I'm not sure that you need another scout here so much as another tank-type character. A dwarven or half-orcan Fighter[4]/Barb[x] might work better, especially if you replace the bard with a Rogue/Wizard. You definitely want to fit thief skills in the party somewhere if this is your first IWD2 party.

[ZFR]

Take a paladin of ilmater. Paladin order only determines which class he can take levels in without losing the ability to level up as paladin. Since you're playing a sorcerer, this is not important to you, but paladins of ilmater get an extra quest.

[Klorox]

Thanks for all the help everybody. I haven't started yet, because I want to get this straight rather than restart a whole bunch.

Originally posted by Aerich: Be warned that if you choose a specialist wizard such as an enchanter, you will take an experience penalty. If male, the drow's favoured class is (non-specialist) wizard, so that would work better, I think.

Really? Wow, I'm very surprised by that! Can anybody else shed some light here?

Originally posted by Aerich: A race without an ECL penalty might also be preferable here, because you aren't going to get many bard spells.

My thinking was more like, "Since the Bard reaches his power cap (I'm guessing around level 11 because of the song) earlier than the others, I might be better off having a non combatant (the light won't bother his spells and songs) be a tiny bit behind in level. Is this wrong?

[Klorox]

Different angle here:

I've decided I'm really only interested in a "normal mode" game. Here's my updated party. Again, any and all suggestions are welcome:

1) Aasimar Fighter 4/Paladin X. This is my main tank. He'll also be there to do some talking (just not where a reward is involved! ) I took a peek at the "Ease of Use" mod, and there's an option to make the Holy Avenger sword a Greatsword. I'm going to take that route, I think, and specialize in it (that's what those 4 levels of Fighter are for).

2) Dwarf Cleric of Tempus X. Another great tank, she also is a great spellcaster. Axes all the way.

3) Human Monk X. This is my scout, and will serve as a flanking tank-type. I understand they get really powerful at higher levels.

4) Halfling Rogue 2/Bard X. This character will hand all the locks and traps, and will do a lot of talking, as well as identifying stuff. Since the Bard class is a support character anyway, I don't mind so much on missing out on some levels.

5) Elf Druid X. I chose Elf because they're natural tree-huggers, and the Bow proficiency will help out when not casting spells. Unless shapechanged, I think I'd like to keep a lightly armored Druid away from the front-line.

6) Human Sorcerer X. This is my firepower character.

[ 01-10-2007, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: Klorox ]

[Aerich]

That looks a little more balanced. The party is slightly inflexible in that you don't have any characters capable of learning and casting from mage scrolls. This may pose a problem when you run across useful spells that are not so useful that you will use a precious spell slot to learn them. It is a weakness of the party, but on the other hand the party has many strengths.

I would suggest taking a non-human monk. Monks are stat-intensive in the sense that they never seem to have as many points as you want when building the character. If you can take a race where you get a net "gain" of stat points, it will help you, especially in the early going. For example, an aasimar starts off with 80 stat points, compared to a human's 76. Granted, two of those are "wasted" on a monk because they are on Charisma, and you cannot really use those points for any other skill (aasimar have a racial minimum of 5 for Cha, and the minimum is 3 for races without a Cha adjustment). That still leaves you with 2 extra points and a few racial resistances, for the cost of 1 level. Note that drow are not ideal monks from the stats perspective because 2 of their 2 stat bonuses are on Int and Cha, the two least useful skills for a monk. The Dex bonus and Con penalty pretty much cancel each other out. Innate magic resistance makes drow viable, though. If you'd be willing to take the 2 ECL penalty for drow, go the whole way and take the 3 ECL penalty for a svirfneblin. [img]smile.gif[/img] Otherwise, stick with the 0 or 1 ECL penalty, because a monk's power comes secondarily from stats but primarily from levels, to an extent that is IMO unmatched by any other class. A well-protected, well-planned, high level monk is an incomparable meat shield in melee, and a low level monk is 2 hits from being dog food. Max out Wis and Dex, then try to strike a balance between Str and Con. Drain Cha and Int all the way if you feel like playing that way, because those stats have very little substantive impact on your character.

[Klorox]

Thanks, Aerich. Maybe a Dwarven Monk then! Or maybe a Half-Orc or Wild Elf! I'd very much like to stay away from an ECL race for my Monk (I'm treating his powers as if he were a spellchucker), and the Dwarf is the only race I can think of off the top of my head with a fighting character's "useful" bonus with no penalty.

Then again, maybe I should suck it up and play him as a Tiefling. Not too sure yet, but I'd like to get rolling tonight! [img]smile.gif[/img]

EDIT: Another idea just popped into my head:

Instead of the Halfling Rogue/Bard, would a high INT Drow Bard (single classed) fill the same role, but better? I need a trap finder, a smooth talker, and a total support character here. Could it be done this way, and is that a better option?

TIA

[ 01-11-2007, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: Klorox ]

[Aerich]

Off the top of my head, I can't recall whether a bard has unpenalized access (or indeed, any access) to all thieving skills, particularly trap detection and removal. You could just try building the bard and look hard at the skill points distribution stage. If it won't work, abort the character and return to the previous idea.

Note that a drow bard will not be any faster than a Rogue[2]/Bard from a race that does not have an ECL penalty. It does have magic resistance, which is useful for any character.

[Klorox]

I know it wouldn't be faster, Aerich, but a Drow has the perfect stat bonuses for a Bard.