The "Axis" of evil? - Page 3

02-01-2002, 08:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Kaz:
How can you point at an entire COUNTRY and say that it is evil? I agree, the term 'evil' is being used WAY too much. I don't know the exact history of either North Korea, Iran or Iraq, but I cannot believe that you could simply say, "they are evil - we are good". Also, if ANYTHING, you could call the GOVERNMENT evil (if it starves its people) but surely not the whole country (that would be including civilians, little children, ...). I agree, the term 'evil' is being used far too much lately. IMHO, it is very hard to term a SINGLE person 'evil', let alone several million! Also, a too black-and-white view of the situation does not help A BIT. Always consider the fact that you may be in the wrong!

Kaz dear, dont be naieve the whole country is not evil, every adult in the world should realize that speach was directed at governments and not individual citizens. Listen to it in context or current events.

02-01-2002, 08:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by norompanlasolas:

yep... in every country in the world every leader (president, pm, king, dictator, whatever) say their speeches in times of strife, which are usually demagogic, and everybody else applaudes and cheers... its got nothing to do with the us, its just a human tradition i guess. [img]smile.gif[/img]

LoL Ill be darned...I actually agree with you on something [img]smile.gif[/img] hehehehe
good post, succint and to the point..wish I wrote that way.

Lifetime · 02-01-2002, 11:50 PM

I believe it was 75 applauses in 49 minutes..
The whole Axis Of Evil thing was splashed all over the newspapers in Melbourne. Kinda feels like Bush is trying to rally the "allies" together in time for WW3 against the new "Axis".
Man Afghanistan was a pushover compared to these nations..

Tarox · 02-02-2002, 12:32 AM

American Bullshit Propaganda

A lot of those speeches are for the American people i think rather than the rest of us
Ive watched a few and many have no real subject but are just waffle concerning how great the USA is, how they can kill anyone, how their are invincible, how they will fight people etc etc.....all morale raising, hat throwing, cheering and singing type speeches..

It's one thing saying about how the USA is gonna go into every Middle Eastern country and wipe out terrorism, but to start selecting "countries" as a whole isn't the smartest thing to do I wouldn't have thought and very naive to think the West is all powerful, all conquering.

I'm sure more will unfold in the follwing weeks/months.

K T Ong · 02-02-2002, 04:25 AM

The West in general and America in particular just never seem to tire of viewing others in a dim light. Well, the bald fact is that the West is treading, and compelling everyone else to tread, a path towards environmental Armageddon -- a path otherwise known as industrial development. This is surely a crime of such magnitude it will make the most depraved terrorist look like a saint by comparison.

Hmmm, wonder exactly who's the evil one...

02-03-2002, 11:36 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Tarox:
American Bullshit Propaganda

A lot of those speeches are for the American people i think rather than the rest of us
Ive watched a few and many have no real subject but are just waffle concerning how great the USA is, how they can kill anyone, how their are invincible, how they will fight people etc etc.....all morale raising, hat throwing, cheering and singing type speeches..

It's one thing saying about how the USA is gonna go into every Middle Eastern country and wipe out terrorism, but to start selecting "countries" as a whole isn't the smartest thing to do I wouldn't have thought and very naive to think the West is all powerful, all conquering.

I'm sure more will unfold in the follwing weeks/months.

Ohh yes and Im sure no other country deals in such "bullshit" and rhetoric...get over it dude, in this case the guy was right. The nations named are the biggest threat not only to our way of life but to yours as well.

02-03-2002, 11:44 AM

quote:
Originally posted by K T Ong:
The West in general and America in particular just never seem to tire of viewing others in a dim light. Well, the bald fact is that the West is treading, and compelling everyone else to tread, a path towards environmental Armageddon -- a path otherwise known as industrial development. This is surely a crime of such magnitude it will make the most depraved terrorist look like a saint by comparison.

Hmmm, wonder exactly who's the evil one...

Hmmm environmental armageddon nice phrase guy! However, I think the fears along that line are from the same people who promised us back in 1972 that there would be no oil in the year 2000, that the rain forests would vanish by the year 1990 and that inflation would make an apple cost roughly $25 by the year 2000. The environmental doom and gloom people tend to forget that in a single eruption a volcano can blow more hazardous chemicals into the atmosphere than all the exhaust generated by man in the last 40-50 years. There have been several mass extinction before man came along, so all in all the world in my view isnt in any greater danger from man than it is from itself. And don't forget, the west is also responsible for most of the ecological environmental groups too. It is people who have more timeon their hands than they need for mere survival who worry about global warming. (By the way does anyone even remember that we are currently in an interglacial period? and that another ice age is forcast for us down the road?)

Barry the Sprout · 02-04-2002, 05:50 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:

Kaz dear, dont be naieve the whole country is not evil, every adult in the world should realize that speach was directed at governments and not individual citizens. Listen to it in context or current events.

But he didn't refer to the governments did he? He referred to the countries. I know there is a big difference, but Bush didn't make it and you are giving him more credit than he deserves in my view. Even then how can you say that a government is evil. What are you criteria for labelling a government evil? To me it seems that a government is evil if they don't support "our way of life", which I find laughable at best really. A Utopian government would almost certainly not support our way of life, would they be evil?

As to the environmental issue, what is your point MagiK? Shit happened before we got here so it doesn't matter how much more we ladle on? I am sure that it doesn't really matter how many degrees the world temperature has risen over the last 25 years *when all else has remained constant except human intervention*. It is not the background stuff that causes the problems. That has been around for years and hasn't killed people yet. It is our intervention that pushes the fragile system from "safe" into "unstable". We can't just ignore it all as scaremongering and stick our heads in the sand. Species of animal *are* dying, the world temperature *is* rising.

Ronn_Bman · 02-04-2002, 06:39 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Barry the Sprout:

But he didn't refer to the governments did he? He referred to the countries. I know there is a big difference, but Bush didn't make it and you are giving him more credit than he deserves in my view. Even then how can you say that a government is evil. What are you criteria for labelling a government evil? To me it seems that a government is evil if they don't support "our way of life", which I find laughable at best really. A Utopian government would almost certainly not support our way of life, would they be evil?

YOU see it as US saying those that don't subscribe to "our way of life", but that is not it and YOU know it isn't. You don't like the label "evil", as evidenced in your thread on the subject, but that doesn't make the use of the word invalid.

The most frequently used definitions of evil, as I listed in the other thread (you never responded), are "1 a : morally reprehensible : SINFUL, WICKED b : arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct" and can be used to describe actions by an individual or a government or anything (that should have morals) inbetween.

Of course, morals are "in the eye of the beholder" [img]smile.gif[/img] . You don't have to tell me that there are those who think the US government (some would include it's citizens) is evil. September 11th made that perfectly clear.

*tongue in cheek* What the US is doing now is "clearing up" the definition a little...

[ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

Yorick · 02-04-2002, 07:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Scholarcs:
I saw it as an arrogant speech as well, what is it with this guy? Or maybe its just all Americans? No offence of course...

All Americans? You want a punch in the face? This is flamebaiting and trollike. What is it with you? No offense of course......

[ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: Yorick ]

02-01-2002, 08:52 PM	#21
MagiK Guest Posts: n/a	quote: Originally posted by Kaz: How can you point at an entire COUNTRY and say that it is evil? I agree, the term 'evil' is being used WAY too much. I don't know the exact history of either North Korea, Iran or Iraq, but I cannot believe that you could simply say, "they are evil - we are good". Also, if ANYTHING, you could call the GOVERNMENT evil (if it starves its people) but surely not the whole country (that would be including civilians, little children, ...). I agree, the term 'evil' is being used far too much lately. IMHO, it is very hard to term a SINGLE person 'evil', let alone several million! Also, a too black-and-white view of the situation does not help A BIT. Always consider the fact that you may be in the wrong! Kaz dear, dont be naieve the whole country is not evil, every adult in the world should realize that speach was directed at governments and not individual citizens. Listen to it in context or current events.

02-01-2002, 08:54 PM	#22
MagiK Guest Posts: n/a	quote: Originally posted by norompanlasolas: yep... in every country in the world every leader (president, pm, king, dictator, whatever) say their speeches in times of strife, which are usually demagogic, and everybody else applaudes and cheers... its got nothing to do with the us, its just a human tradition i guess. [img]smile.gif[/img] LoL Ill be darned...I actually agree with you on something [img]smile.gif[/img] hehehehe good post, succint and to the point..wish I wrote that way.

02-01-2002, 11:50 PM	#23
Lifetime Red Dragon Join Date: March 3, 2001 Location: Scotch College, Melbourne Posts: 1,503	I believe it was 75 applauses in 49 minutes.. The whole Axis Of Evil thing was splashed all over the newspapers in Melbourne. Kinda feels like Bush is trying to rally the "allies" together in time for WW3 against the new "Axis". Man Afghanistan was a pushover compared to these nations.. __________________ \'Cause its always raining in my head. Forget all the things I should have said..

02-02-2002, 12:32 AM	#24
Tarox Manshoon Join Date: November 2, 2001 Location: Nottingham, UK Posts: 171	American Bullshit Propaganda A lot of those speeches are for the American people i think rather than the rest of us Ive watched a few and many have no real subject but are just waffle concerning how great the USA is, how they can kill anyone, how their are invincible, how they will fight people etc etc.....all morale raising, hat throwing, cheering and singing type speeches.. It's one thing saying about how the USA is gonna go into every Middle Eastern country and wipe out terrorism, but to start selecting "countries" as a whole isn't the smartest thing to do I wouldn't have thought and very naive to think the West is all powerful, all conquering. I'm sure more will unfold in the follwing weeks/months. __________________ <IMG SRC=\"http://tarox.homestead.com/files/TaroxE.jpg\">

02-02-2002, 04:25 AM	#25
K T Ong Symbol of Cyric Join Date: January 27, 2002 Location: Plateau of Singapore Age: 60 Posts: 1,230	The West in general and America in particular just never seem to tire of viewing others in a dim light. Well, the bald fact is that the West is treading, and compelling everyone else to tread, a path towards environmental Armageddon -- a path otherwise known as industrial development. This is surely a crime of such magnitude it will make the most depraved terrorist look like a saint by comparison. Hmmm, wonder exactly who's the evil one... __________________ <br />Look! Everyone\'s admiring me! <img border=\"0\" title=\"\" alt=\"[Big Grin]\" src=\"biggrin.gif\" />

02-03-2002, 11:36 AM	#26
MagiK Guest Posts: n/a	quote: Originally posted by Tarox: American Bullshit Propaganda A lot of those speeches are for the American people i think rather than the rest of us Ive watched a few and many have no real subject but are just waffle concerning how great the USA is, how they can kill anyone, how their are invincible, how they will fight people etc etc.....all morale raising, hat throwing, cheering and singing type speeches.. It's one thing saying about how the USA is gonna go into every Middle Eastern country and wipe out terrorism, but to start selecting "countries" as a whole isn't the smartest thing to do I wouldn't have thought and very naive to think the West is all powerful, all conquering. I'm sure more will unfold in the follwing weeks/months. Ohh yes and Im sure no other country deals in such "bullshit" and rhetoric...get over it dude, in this case the guy was right. The nations named are the biggest threat not only to our way of life but to yours as well.

02-03-2002, 11:44 AM	#27
MagiK Guest Posts: n/a	quote: Originally posted by K T Ong: The West in general and America in particular just never seem to tire of viewing others in a dim light. Well, the bald fact is that the West is treading, and compelling everyone else to tread, a path towards environmental Armageddon -- a path otherwise known as industrial development. This is surely a crime of such magnitude it will make the most depraved terrorist look like a saint by comparison. Hmmm, wonder exactly who's the evil one... Hmmm environmental armageddon nice phrase guy! However, I think the fears along that line are from the same people who promised us back in 1972 that there would be no oil in the year 2000, that the rain forests would vanish by the year 1990 and that inflation would make an apple cost roughly $25 by the year 2000. The environmental doom and gloom people tend to forget that in a single eruption a volcano can blow more hazardous chemicals into the atmosphere than all the exhaust generated by man in the last 40-50 years. There have been several mass extinction before man came along, so all in all the world in my view isnt in any greater danger from man than it is from itself. And don't forget, the west is also responsible for most of the ecological environmental groups too. It is people who have more timeon their hands than they need for mere survival who worry about global warming. (By the way does anyone even remember that we are currently in an interglacial period? and that another ice age is forcast for us down the road?)

02-04-2002, 05:50 AM	#28
Barry the Sprout White Dragon Join Date: October 19, 2001 Location: York, UK. Age: 41 Posts: 1,815	quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Kaz dear, dont be naieve the whole country is not evil, every adult in the world should realize that speach was directed at governments and not individual citizens. Listen to it in context or current events. But he didn't refer to the governments did he? He referred to the countries. I know there is a big difference, but Bush didn't make it and you are giving him more credit than he deserves in my view. Even then how can you say that a government is evil. What are you criteria for labelling a government evil? To me it seems that a government is evil if they don't support "our way of life", which I find laughable at best really. A Utopian government would almost certainly not support our way of life, would they be evil? As to the environmental issue, what is your point MagiK? Shit happened before we got here so it doesn't matter how much more we ladle on? I am sure that it doesn't really matter how many degrees the world temperature has risen over the last 25 years when all else has remained constant except human intervention. It is not the background stuff that causes the problems. That has been around for years and hasn't killed people yet. It is our intervention that pushes the fragile system from "safe" into "unstable". We can't just ignore it all as scaremongering and stick our heads in the sand. Species of animal are dying, the world temperature is rising. __________________ [img]\"http://img1.ranchoweb.com/images/sproutman/certwist.gif\" alt=\" - \" /><br /><br /><i>\"And the angels all pallid and wan,<br />Uprising, unveiling, affirm,<br />That the play is the tragedy, man,<br />And its hero the Conquerer Worm.\"</i><br /> - Edgar Allan Poe

02-04-2002, 06:39 PM	#29
Ronn_Bman Zartan Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: North Carolina USA Age: 57 Posts: 5,177	quote: Originally posted by Barry the Sprout: But he didn't refer to the governments did he? He referred to the countries. I know there is a big difference, but Bush didn't make it and you are giving him more credit than he deserves in my view. Even then how can you say that a government is evil. What are you criteria for labelling a government evil? To me it seems that a government is evil if they don't support "our way of life", which I find laughable at best really. A Utopian government would almost certainly not support our way of life, would they be evil? YOU see it as US saying those that don't subscribe to "our way of life", but that is not it and YOU know it isn't. You don't like the label "evil", as evidenced in your thread on the subject, but that doesn't make the use of the word invalid. The most frequently used definitions of evil, as I listed in the other thread (you never responded), are "1 a : morally reprehensible : SINFUL, WICKED b : arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct" and can be used to describe actions by an individual or a government or anything (that should have morals) inbetween. Of course, morals are "in the eye of the beholder" [img]smile.gif[/img] . You don't have to tell me that there are those who think the US government (some would include it's citizens) is evil. September 11th made that perfectly clear. tongue in cheek What the US is doing now is "clearing up" the definition a little... [ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ] __________________ [img]\"http://home.carolina.rr.com/orthanc/pics/Spinning%20Hammer%20Sig%20Pic.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

02-04-2002, 07:19 PM	#30
Yorick Very Mad Bird Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam) Age: 52 Posts: 9,246	quote: Originally posted by Scholarcs: I saw it as an arrogant speech as well, what is it with this guy? Or maybe its just all Americans? No offence of course... All Americans? You want a punch in the face? This is flamebaiting and trollike. What is it with you? No offense of course...... [ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: Yorick ] __________________ http://www.hughwilson.com

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