Anyone else tried the 2 party game?

[Gimli]

He's saying he ultimately wants the second party, but that they would be weak at low levels if they have poor equipment. So he made a temporary party to start with that would be much easier to play with at low levels. He also has certain equipment he wants that temporary party to pick up for his real party, so he lets them get to level 21 where those items can be random drops. Once the temporary party has the right equipment he replaces them with the real party. Now the real party will not be weak at lower levels (I also think he is replacing the temps with level 1 chars).

I don't think he'd have to go through too much of the game with the temporary party, not sure how he plays it but Wiz 8 spawns tons of monsters non-stop, if he could get strong enough to start surviving AP monsters he could just go there for exp/drops galore.

The problem to me is that the second party will level up pretty fast and not develop their skills enough, although they will definitely have some great equipment. I don't know if it is easier to deal with a weak party at low levels or go through the temporary party process, but it's definitely something I hadn't heard of before.

[ 05-10-2005, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: Gimli ]

[SpitBall]

Yeah, bladedog, that was my assumption, too. But, Scatter's response got me to thinking about replacing them one by one. In the end, I was simply confused. Gimli, though, has found a flaw in his plan, although, the high-quality weapons might make up for it to some extent and it won't apply to the magic users, just the weapon and thieving skills.

[xfactor]

The other problem is that you'll meet some pretty decent monsters in some of the more advanced regions who will cut through your party's low HP and poor resistances very easily.

Like Gimli said, the skills will be very low as well. The way the Wiz8 level-up XP requirements work you'd find yourself not gaining levels as quickly as you might expect. Also, is it better to have a super-weapon that only gets one swing and one attack per round and only hits half the time or is it better to have a slightly worse weapon that hits more often (with a higher Strength and Powerstrike skill)?

I'd go for the latter. Still, it's an interesting experiment. I'd probably rather use an editor to do it. Saves time and I don't see too much difference between continually reloading combats/chests and editing the required stuff in.

xfactor

[bladedog]

There seem to be a lot of considerations here. I've never done a character replacement, so feel free to correct any incorrect assumptions.

First I assume you would have to go back to either the monastry or perhaps the early arnika road to get lower level monsters to fight. (Could a level 1 party survive in Arnika even with super weapons etc?)

But, since your first party will have dealt with all the fixed encounters you will be limited to random ones which, I would guess, would mean far less experience.

Plus any encounters you do have will be easily dealt with by the weaponry, meaning little or no natural training.

Its a good experiment, and I'm definitely going to have a go for a couple of hours tonight, because on the face of it, it sounds a tiny bit unfulfilling.

[Wereboar]

First I assume you would have to go back to either the monastry or perhaps the early arnika road to get lower level monsters to fight. (Could a level 1 party survive in Arnika even with super weapons etc?)

He wrote:

And about the experience? I can get to around level 15 pretty easy by doing quests. Actually I just did quest 3 ( I think ) for the trang and got from level 1 to level 8. And all the other high experience quests are still unfinished.

So if he does the replacement (for all characters) there, they'll be level 8. Good enough to teleport back to arnika, and survive there with some help.

[SpitBall]

This doesn't apply to TinyMage's party, but some of the Bard instruments have level requirements for their use - so a lvl 1 Bard wouldn't be able to use the high-powered stuff. I figure this applies to other classes and weapons as well.

[Scatter]

no, no level requirements for most things; only Bards and Gads and a few items requiring Artifacts Skill minimums. No weapons in the original game have any skill requirements (other than Artifacts skill for any spells they might have), and only casters have limits on which spells they can learn by level.
But if your combat skills are low, and your opponents outlevel you at all, you'll hit/penetrate much less often.

[bladedog]

OK so I tried it. Took my 6-member 24+ level party back to the Monastry (accepting Wearboars comment) and replaced everyone. I replaced with replica's of the original party (I know that's not what is wanted here but I didn't have the time to think about new combinations).

Observations:
1) I screwed up the requirements for The Defiler and so my LIZ FIG couldn't use it straight off, but I soon sorted that. Also had the new sword from the umpani quest which has Sword 60 as a requirement, so that will stay in the backpack for a while longer.
2) I arrived at the beach with all buffs running, so when I had finished replacing they were all still there. This was very handy as you'll see in point 3.
3) All the monsters were at the level I had been when I entered the lower monastry!!!!!! That was dumb and I should have thought about it. I guess you need to replace all characters near a "transit point" between two areas so you can immediately move to a new area, presumably reseting the level modifiers etc in the process. Man did I need those buffs.
4) But, an encounter with 3 flesh-eating slimes was still over quite quickly, 2-3 rounds each. Lost the Mage to a ranged attack which got past the missile shield, but raised her again just in time. 48000+ exp each from one encounter is not to be sniffed at!!!!!
5) I didn't move too far. The buffs have all gone now, along with X-Ray, so I have no idea what I'm going to run into next. But so long as the hits don't land they may well survive.
6) All the quests that were complete before are still complete, so I'm not sure the idea of replacing in the T'Rang nest or wherever will help. As an example I still have all 3 items, so effectively could go straight to AP and complete the game!!!
7) Skills are not going up with use, because they are simply not being used. If the FIG's hit they are doing 40-60 damage each time. By contrast the spell casters are using daft low-level spells which are having no effect (except heal wounds).

From the breif time I have spent doing this I would have to say that whilst its entertaining to see what happens, I don't think its something I'd do as a long-term game plan. The only way to make it worthwhile for the second party, would be to do no quests at all, just fight random mobs and collect everything you might want, so that the second party could play the game through, but I'm not convinced I could be bothered to play the first party through properly knowing they were going to be dumped.

Good experiment though.

[SpitBall]

Bladedog: Seems the general hypotheses of the post were confirmed by experimentation.

Scatter: Your comment that there are not level requirements for Bard instruments is not correct. Every one of the instruments has a requirement for the Bard to be of a certain level. They also have certain music skill requirements. Actually, that's how I decide (in large part) which instruments my Bard carries - he uses those with the highest level requirements. Just like higher level spells, these are more powerful and require more skill (and XP) to use effectively.

[Scatter]

You didn't read that sentence correcrtly, Spit.
"only bards and gads..." means they DO.
The "no level requirements" was to your "i figure other classes..."

[ 05-12-2005, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: Scatter ]