Double standards on Israel - Palestine

[DragonMage]

Thanks SC and Yorick, both of you!

And don't worry, Yorick - no "anti-anyone" rants from me.

I don't feel that anyone has any right to dislike anyone else for their origin of birth. Maybe for the way they were raised (i.e. to hate), but never just for where they are born. I have many friends from all over the world and have no qualms about where they are from, even if their home country may not be the 'nicest'.

I don't judge people too harshly for anything. I feel that everyone is entitled to their opinion whether I agree with it or not. I only start to get steamed if that person (or a group of people) decide that THEIR opinion is right and noone else's matters. Especially if they try to foist their opinion forcibly on others.

And I don't know where that puts me in this particular debate, because I also feel that something HAS to be done to stop 'terrorism' on all fronts. I don't want innocents hurt, but I don't believe that anyone can just talk this one out. I wish they COULD all put aside old hates and hurts, but we all know that won't happen. Perhaps if WE, personally, had a say in it or could talk to the various nations, it might help. But as long as those that we have entrusted our government to (at least, those of us who vote for our leaders) are in charge, there is little you or I can do to change things.

We just have to pray that they will have the wisdom to do the 'right' thing, whatever that may be, and to pray that all will be well in the end. I, personally, do not fear for myself - I know where my reward awaits. But those who don't know or who are afraid...God help them.

*DM steps down from her soapbox*

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The day we stop learning is the day we start dying!(c)

Owner/operator of the Evil Petting Zoo and devout member of the HADB clan.
Commander of the Dragon Fleet, IW Peacekeeping Force
Mage extraordinair.
Occasional minion to Gwhanos the Fluffy

Hopeless Romantic *sigh*

"Allright! We'll call it a draw."

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by DragonMage: Thanks SC and Yorick, both of you! And don't worry, Yorick - no "anti-anyone" rants from me. I don't feel that anyone has any right to dislike anyone else for their origin of birth. Maybe for the way they were raised (i.e. to hate), but never just for where they are born. I have many friends from all over the world and have no qualms about where they are from, even if their home country may not be the 'nicest'. ...We just have to pray that they will have the wisdom to do the 'right' thing, whatever that may be, and to pray that all will be well in the end. I, personally, do not fear for myself - I know where my reward awaits. But those who don't know or who are afraid...God help them.

Well said! Further to this, something you might like, DragonMage....

At the end of my dance session, which I go to once or twice a week, we are sending 'light' and healing energy both to the world, and to its leaders. ALL its leaders, not just the ones we might be in agreement with! The prayer is for them to be guided to take the best possible actions for the highest good of all of us.

I like to visualise a cloud of doves flying towards the leaders and peoples of the world, opening up their hearts to love one another, and themselves (the latter being a prerequisite for the former, to my mind.)

Although I am not really a bible person, I think Jesus was with me on this one He said 'love thy neighbour as thyself' which implies that you need to love yourself in order to love your neighbour!

I think that's at the root of so many of our problems, the fact that we don't love ourselves too much. (By the way, being indulgent or hedonistic with yourself isn't quite the same as loving yourself in my opinion.) The reason we don't love ourselves - well, that's a long one, isn't it! Got to do with upbringing, society, belief systems, lots of factors there.....

If more people truly believed THEY were worthy of love, then perhaps they'd pretty much automatically believe (and act on the belief) that all other people were worthy of and entitled to love too. Usually those of us who judge others the most, are hardest on ourselves, even if its only internally, and not always obvious to other people.

Gosh, I've gone into a big ramble now...... Procrastination..... and jubilation..... (Guess what I'm not doing while I'm typing this......


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Ascended Mistress of Illumination

[Sir Kenyth]

This war has been going on since biblical times. If I remember my old testament sermons, I believe they were cursed by God to fight until the end. I'm not sure it will ever end. The simple reason we back Israel is because of their government structure. We, as a country, stand for democracy. Anything else was seen as a threat in that day and age. Look at the witch hunt we had for commie pinkos! A disgusting violation of citizen and human rights, but the majority rules! I sometimes think that we like to keep nations in that area of the world divided for political reasons. Divided they fall, so to say. Sometimes, the U.S. seems like a modern day Roman Empire, doesn't it? We seem to follow the same trends. Hopefully, we fare better than Rome did.

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The true secret to happiness is not having what you want, it's wanting what you have!

[DragonMage]

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: Well said! Further to this, something you might like, DragonMage.... At the end of my dance session, which I go to once or twice a week, we are sending 'light' and healing energy both to the world, and to its leaders. ALL its leaders, not just the ones we might be in agreement with! The prayer is for them to be guided to take the best possible actions for the highest good of all of us. I like to visualise a cloud of doves flying towards the leaders and peoples of the world, opening up their hearts to love one another, and themselves (the latter being a prerequisite for the former, to my mind.) Although I am not really a bible person, I think Jesus was with me on this one He said 'love thy neighbour as thyself' which implies that you need to love yourself in order to love your neighbour! I think that's at the root of so many of our problems, the fact that we don't love ourselves too much. (By the way, being indulgent or hedonistic with yourself isn't quite the same as loving yourself in my opinion.) The reason we don't love ourselves - well, that's a long one, isn't it! Got to do with upbringing, society, belief systems, lots of factors there..... If more people truly believed THEY were worthy of love, then perhaps they'd pretty much automatically believe (and act on the belief) that all other people were worthy of and entitled to love too. Usually those of us who judge others the most, are hardest on ourselves, even if its only internally, and not always obvious to other people. Gosh, I've gone into a big ramble now...... Procrastination..... and jubilation..... (Guess what I'm not doing while I'm typing this......

Oh! SC, I really like the 'visualizing doves' part of that sentiment. That just seems to add something to the process!!!

And I agree whole-heartedly that, for us to love others, we MUST love ourselves first. It has taken me a long and hard journey for me to realize that I am worth something. I used to be 'not-so-nice' when I had less self-esteem. I was very anti-social. I have had some very good friends, though, since that time who have made me see that I am loved. In turn, I can be pleasant and forgiving and loving to others. (But I must admit, I'm still hard on myself.)

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The day we stop learning is the day we start dying!(c)

Owner/operator of the Evil Petting Zoo and devout member of the HADB clan.
Commander of the Dragon Fleet, IW Peacekeeping Force
Mage extraordinair.
Occasional minion to Gwhanos the Fluffy

Hopeless Romantic *sigh*

"Allright! We'll call it a draw."

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Dragon Mage and Silver Cheetah, most excellent posts

Dragon Mage, for that and previous posts you are formally invited into the transcendant ranks of the Clan Illuminati Whether you belong to other Clans is immaterial with us Of course, the Ascended Mistress of Illumination is already a member

I attribute much of who I am today, in particular my rebellious nature and iconoclastic tendencies, to a reaction against my own father, who was tyrranical and overbearing as a parent.

Ironic, that a tyrant would produce an anarchist -- but not surprising at all I guess.

Ascended Mistress of Illumination, that was a wonderful interpretation of Jesus' message to love thy neighbor as yourself. That put a new spin on it for me, in a way I had never quite considered, but you are right. A key part of the message is to love oneself. Most excellent, oh illuminated one

[Ryanamur]

Originally posted by Sir Kenyth: The simple reason we back Israel is because of their government structure. We, as a country, stand for democracy. Anything else was seen as a threat in that day and age.

Nope, I don't agree with this. Their are a few reasons why our governement backed Israel but democracy isn't one of them. I would have to say that the first one would be that we felt bad for Jewish people after WWII. The second is that, at the time, Jewish people had lots of money (today, it's Arab country that do thanks to our dependency on oil; but at home, Jewish people still have lots of investments in the US Northeastern seaport) and the last, but the most important reason why we back them today is because the population expects us to back them.

It's a policy that backed fire. We (the Western World) got involved in something that we couldn't handled. A conflict that as lasted for ages. Now, we're starting to pay the price of our mistake.

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If I am because I think, then, if I talk without thinking, I'm not really talking! Am I?

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by DragonMage: I used to be 'not-so-nice' when I had less self-esteem. I was very anti-social. I have had some very good friends, though, since that time who have made me see that I am loved. In turn, I can be pleasant and forgiving and loving to others. (But I must admit, I'm still hard on myself.)

Hey, soul sister!! Yup, people used not to invite me to parties because they were scared of what I might do. (I used to go anyway, of course. Part of not being very nice, tee hee.....) Probably am still not so nice - but now I like myself, and so it doesn't really matter....



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Ascended Mistress of Illumination

[DragonMage]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: Dragon Mage and Silver Cheetah, most excellent posts Dragon Mage, for that and previous posts you are formally invited into the transcendant ranks of the Clan Illuminati Whether you belong to other Clans is immaterial with us Of course, the Ascended Mistress of Illumination is already a member I attribute much of who I am today, in particular my rebellious nature and iconoclastic tendencies, to a reaction against my own father, who was tyrranical and overbearing as a parent. Ironic, that a tyrant would produce an anarchist -- but not surprising at all I guess. Ascended Mistress of Illumination, that was a wonderful interpretation of Jesus' message to love thy neighbor as yourself. That put a new spin on it for me, in a way I had never quite considered, but you are right. A key part of the message is to love oneself. Most excellent, oh illuminated one

Thank you, Dio! And I would be honored to be a member of your most illustrious and en-light-ened clan!

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The day we stop learning is the day we start dying!(c)

Owner/operator of the Evil Petting Zoo and devout member of the HADB clan.
Commander of the Dragon Fleet, IW Peacekeeping Force
Mage extraordinair.
Occasional minion to Gwhanos the Fluffy

Hopeless Romantic *sigh*

"Allright! We'll call it a draw."

[DragonMage]

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: Hey, soul sister!! Yup, people used not to invite me to parties because they were scared of what I might do. (I used to go anyway, of course. Part of not being very nice, tee hee.....) Probably am still not so nice - but now I like myself, and so it doesn't really matter....

Yes, I too, dear sister, have learned to like myself no matter what others think. (At least, most of the time !)

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The day we stop learning is the day we start dying!(c)

Owner/operator of the Evil Petting Zoo and devout member of the HADB clan.
Commander of the Dragon Fleet, IW Peacekeeping Force
Mage extraordinair.
Occasional minion to Gwhanos the Fluffy

Hopeless Romantic *sigh*

"Allright! We'll call it a draw."

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Sir Kenyth: I sometimes think that we like to keep nations in that area of the world divided for political reasons. Divided they fall, so to say. Sometimes, the U.S. seems like a modern day Roman Empire, doesn't it? We seem to follow the same trends. Hopefully, we fare better than Rome did.

Yes, I also think that the policy in the middle east is self interested very much oil and arms related. Oil is a key resource, which we all need massive amounts of, and which is, however, finite in amount. Being held to ransom by OPEC is no fun. So policies which prevent this from happening are pursued. (Personally, I believe that looking at alternatives to oil and gas is the sensible route!)

And there's no denying that the Middle East, taken collectively, is a massive market for arms. Britain and America both have done and are doing very well indeed out of it, n'est pas?


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Ascended Mistress of Illumination