Prison, should prisoners pay?

wellard · 01-25-2007, 07:00 AM

Prison, should prisoners pay for their upkeep?

Simple enough question really. I overheard something about this idea on the radio and that Netherlands may be looking at it. I was stunned with the simplicity of the idea. I guess it costs a lot of money to keep crims in prison and there are many examples of crims being let out early because of overcrowding, is this the answer? Or is there something bad about this idea I am missing?

[ 01-25-2007, 07:16 AM: Message edited by: wellard ]

PurpleXVI · 01-25-2007, 07:26 AM

Well, let's see.

#1: A lot of people in prisons are genuinely pretty damn poor as it is, they likely could not pay for their upkeep.

#2: A lot of people would end up in debt or just plain 100% broke when they got out of jail, making it hard for them to get a life again. They'd easily slip back into addiction/crime or just end up being a drain on society some other way.

It might make it cheaper while they're in there, but it'd make the chances of rehabilitation a LOT lower, which could cost society in the long run.

the new JR Jansen · 01-25-2007, 07:27 AM

It sounds good enough. But the question is, how will they get that money to pay for their upkeep ? Do they have to work for it in prison or outside of it (community work under guard. examples of this do exist) or do they simple have to pay ? I mean somebody who will have lots of money and does a crime may then have a much easier time then somebody who doesn't have a lot of money to begin with. Sounds like something like class justice.

PurpleXVI · 01-25-2007, 07:31 AM

Working while in prison would make sense, there'd be no exception for the rich in that.

Additionally, if they worked enough to pay for more than their upkeep, they should be allowed to keep some of the money earned. For poor people it might give them a chance to get back on their feet once they get out of prison.

wellard · 01-25-2007, 07:46 AM

There would be no benifits in prison (like better cells) for the rich. Just a case of if he or she had assets then they would be seized to pay for the 'rent'

PurpleXVI · 01-25-2007, 07:48 AM

Yeah, but the rich prisoners could much easier pay for this "rent." It might be, say, 10% of their total assets. For a poor person, it might be 90% of everything they had. Don't you see a difference?

Even if we set it to a fixed percentage, a millionaire could much more easily survive without 50% of their money than someone who's barely scraping by.

wellard · 01-25-2007, 08:42 AM

But on the other hand why should a 'millionaire' not contribute? If a poor person has no assets then he does not pay. IIRC they do this to drug dealers in America (USA) why not extend the idea further?

PurpleXVI · 01-25-2007, 09:11 AM

Where do we put the limit between "has to pay" and "gets off free," then?

The problem isn't so much people with no assets(Already far down on their luck) or people with lots of assets(Won't be shaken unless you take just about everything, but they still probably have plenty of safety nets.), the problem is people around the middle or the bottom of it, people that have a chance of getting back on their feet, but which could easily be knocked down into "no hope of recovery" by a pay-penalty like this.

Bungleau · 01-25-2007, 09:39 AM

Great topic for the Current Events board

I have no problem saying you pay. Either through your own assets or through working while in prison. Allowing that second option prevents it from becoming a kind of tax on poor people.

Consider, though... less than 5% of the population could afford it. How many people could continue their lifestyle if they suddenly lost their job, which is generally what happens when you go to prison?

PurpleXVI · 01-25-2007, 10:41 AM

It doesn't really matter if they can afford it while in prison, what matters is what happens to them after prison. Without a job or enough money to get by until you get one, it's easy to turn to crime again.

Especially if you consider how much harder it often is for criminals to get jobs. It'd be considerably worsening the chance of rehabilitation for a LOT of people.

01-25-2007, 07:27 AM	#3
the new JR Jansen Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: May 8, 2002 Location: chocolate land Age: 49 Posts: 696	It sounds good enough. But the question is, how will they get that money to pay for their upkeep ? Do they have to work for it in prison or outside of it (community work under guard. examples of this do exist) or do they simple have to pay ? I mean somebody who will have lots of money and does a crime may then have a much easier time then somebody who doesn't have a lot of money to begin with. Sounds like something like class justice. __________________ JR<br /><br /><br /><br />It\'s me. The guy with the cloak big enough for a fire giant and the long nose.<br />Owner of the most visited woodshed in Ironworks\' history.

01-25-2007, 07:46 AM	#5
wellard Dracolisk Join Date: November 1, 2002 Location: Australia ..... G\'day! Posts: 6,123	There would be no benifits in prison (like better cells) for the rich. Just a case of if he or she had assets then they would be seized to pay for the 'rent' __________________ fossils - natures way of laughing at creationists for over 3 billion years

01-25-2007, 08:42 AM	#7
wellard Dracolisk Join Date: November 1, 2002 Location: Australia ..... G\'day! Posts: 6,123	But on the other hand why should a 'millionaire' not contribute? If a poor person has no assets then he does not pay. IIRC they do this to drug dealers in America (USA) why not extend the idea further? __________________ fossils - natures way of laughing at creationists for over 3 billion years

01-25-2007, 09:39 AM	#9
Bungleau 40th Level Warrior Join Date: October 29, 2001 Location: Western Wilds of Michigan Posts: 11,752	Great topic for the Current Events board I have no problem saying you pay. Either through your own assets or through working while in prison. Allowing that second option prevents it from becoming a kind of tax on poor people. Consider, though... less than 5% of the population could afford it. How many people could continue their lifestyle if they suddenly lost their job, which is generally what happens when you go to prison? __________________ B Save Early, Save Often Save Before, Save After Two-Star General, Spelling Soldiers -+-+-+ Give 'em a hug one more time. It might be the last.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
prisoners sue over detox	Morgeruat	General Discussion	0	05-12-2006 11:57 AM
What's the purpose of the three prisoners?	Halsey	Miscellaneous Games (RPG or not)	7	01-22-2004 09:23 PM
Seven Prisoners	Timber Loftis	General Discussion	0	04-14-2003 10:09 AM
american prisoners taken	john	General Discussion	19	03-23-2003 04:44 PM
Can't free prisoners	blues	Icewind Dale \| Heart of Winter \| Icewind Dale II Forum	1	08-05-2000 01:31 AM

01-25-2007, 07:00 AM	#1
wellard Dracolisk Join Date: November 1, 2002 Location: Australia ..... G\'day! Posts: 6,123	Prison, should prisoners pay for their upkeep? Simple enough question really. I overheard something about this idea on the radio and that Netherlands may be looking at it. I was stunned with the simplicity of the idea. I guess it costs a lot of money to keep crims in prison and there are many examples of crims being let out early because of overcrowding, is this the answer? Or is there something bad about this idea I am missing? [ 01-25-2007, 07:16 AM: Message edited by: wellard ] __________________ fossils - natures way of laughing at creationists for over 3 billion years

01-25-2007, 07:26 AM	#2
PurpleXVI Emerald Dragon Join Date: April 6, 2005 Location: Denmark Age: 38 Posts: 903	Well, let's see. #1: A lot of people in prisons are genuinely pretty damn poor as it is, they likely could not pay for their upkeep. #2: A lot of people would end up in debt or just plain 100% broke when they got out of jail, making it hard for them to get a life again. They'd easily slip back into addiction/crime or just end up being a drain on society some other way. It might make it cheaper while they're in there, but it'd make the chances of rehabilitation a LOT lower, which could cost society in the long run.

01-25-2007, 07:31 AM	#4
PurpleXVI Emerald Dragon Join Date: April 6, 2005 Location: Denmark Age: 38 Posts: 903	Working while in prison would make sense, there'd be no exception for the rich in that. Additionally, if they worked enough to pay for more than their upkeep, they should be allowed to keep some of the money earned. For poor people it might give them a chance to get back on their feet once they get out of prison.

01-25-2007, 07:48 AM	#6
PurpleXVI Emerald Dragon Join Date: April 6, 2005 Location: Denmark Age: 38 Posts: 903	Yeah, but the rich prisoners could much easier pay for this "rent." It might be, say, 10% of their total assets. For a poor person, it might be 90% of everything they had. Don't you see a difference? Even if we set it to a fixed percentage, a millionaire could much more easily survive without 50% of their money than someone who's barely scraping by.

01-25-2007, 09:11 AM	#8
PurpleXVI Emerald Dragon Join Date: April 6, 2005 Location: Denmark Age: 38 Posts: 903	Where do we put the limit between "has to pay" and "gets off free," then? The problem isn't so much people with no assets(Already far down on their luck) or people with lots of assets(Won't be shaken unless you take just about everything, but they still probably have plenty of safety nets.), the problem is people around the middle or the bottom of it, people that have a chance of getting back on their feet, but which could easily be knocked down into "no hope of recovery" by a pay-penalty like this.

01-25-2007, 10:41 AM	#10
PurpleXVI Emerald Dragon Join Date: April 6, 2005 Location: Denmark Age: 38 Posts: 903	It doesn't really matter if they can afford it while in prison, what matters is what happens to them after prison. Without a job or enough money to get by until you get one, it's easy to turn to crime again. Especially if you consider how much harder it often is for criminals to get jobs. It'd be considerably worsening the chance of rehabilitation for a LOT of people.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)