The Bush Revolution

[Yorick]

And what is wrong with Socialism?

[Yorick]

Originally posted by John D Harris: now show me where your native country is subject to the laws of the USA. Show me that if you can!

1.Foreign policy direction.
2.Drug war laws.
3.Airline safety regulations.
4.Trade laws.

Show me where the citizens living in Australia, NOT doing any bussiness in or with the USA pay USA (income) tax!

Income tax? That's not the only way people are taxed. Sales tax is huge. Ask the right questions. Tarrifs are a form of sales tax.
If an Australian buys USA products then they are paying indirect tax to the US government.

But then you're going to try and say "ha! I said not doing business with America" well then show me where an American not working pays income tax. You're being ridiculous and ignoring the point. You're arguing for arguments sake.

[Khazadman Risen]

Why compare currencies? As was stated earlier in this thread, the Japanese Yen was smokin' against the Dollar at one time. At one time.

Europe does have a larger population. At this time. They also have a declining birth rate Yorik. The population of the US is still growing.

Hmmmm, let's see, the Russians had their empire. As did the French, Spanish, Dutch, Portuguese, Italians, and Germans. And Turkey too, if they are let into the EU. And let's not forget the big kid on the block when it comes to empire building: The English. Remember, the sun, at one time, never set on the British Empire. So European militarism and expansionism far exceded anything we have ever contemplated.

And socialism will always fail. It will fail because it ends up controling the lives of the people living under it to the point that they turn on it.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Khazadman Risen: Why compare currencies? As was stated earlier in this thread, the Japanese Yen was smokin' against the Dollar at one time. At one time.

It still is.

Europe does have a larger population. At this time. They also have a declining birth rate Yorik. The population of the US is still growing.

Parts of Western Europe, yes. The east is not so. America's population growth I believe comes largely from hispanic immigration. In any case, you're talking well over a hundred million people more. And that's without Russia or the Ukraine.

Hmmmm, let's see, the Russians had their empire. As did the French, Spanish, Dutch, Portuguese, Italians, and Germans. And Turkey too, if they are let into the EU. And let's not forget the big kid on the block when it comes to empire building: The English. Remember, the sun, at one time, never set on the British Empire. So European militarism and expansionism far exceded anything we have ever contemplated.

Which is why Europe will always be "a threat".
What did Germany do once it united. Have a look. (And I don't mean east with west, I mean the original German Unification) Imagine what Europe will do once it fully unites. You really don;t want to create an enemy for America over there. Really stupid. And it can happen, as has happened between other countries.

And socialism will always fail. It will fail because it ends up controling the lives of the people living under it to the point that they turn on it.

That would be a communist dictatorship. Not socialism.

France and Sweden call themselves "socialist". I don;t see controlled lives there. McCarthyism is long dead mate. You might want to get with the program a bit.

[Stratos]

I don't think Europe will ever pose a military threat to the USA, and I really hope such a conflict will never come to be.

Economically, Europe has the potential to be stronger than the USA, assuming the "Eurocrats" down in Brussels get's their acts together. This will probably still take decades.

The Social Democratic party has dominated Swedish politics since around the 1920's, so if they're failing, it sure is a slow process.

Socialism is *much* more than just Marxism and Leninism. It's probably the broadest political ideology there is, ranging anywhere from political centrist/left to almost straight out anarchists, anywhere from democratic to authoritarian. Reformists and revolutionaries.

[ 11-20-2004, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: Stratos ]

[Yorick]

Exactly. Democratic socialism isn't authoritarian communism.
I agree Stratos.

[Timber Loftis]

I hate to read posts that ignore how socialist the US is, Khazadman. In practice, you won't find a qualitative difference between the US Democracy and the Democratic Socialisms found in Europe. It's only a Quantitative difference. A government that controls 20% of the property is part socialist, a government that controls 50% of the property is also part socialist, only moreso. The government (on various levels) is the largest property owner, the largest polluter, the largest spender, and the 5 largest employers in each and every US state. If that ain't socilism, I don't know what is. Abre los ojos, man.

That said, I agree with you that the *degree* of socialism in Europe is beginning to hurt it. And, I think it will adapt (as democracies can do) or fail -- but adapt is more likley.

As for the value of the dollar vs. the euro, it means nothing. In the short run, the falling dollar increases US tourism, increases US exports, and helps our economy recover. In the extremes, a falling currency amount can be devastating. But, even the Economist notes that for quite some time the US can happily "let the dollar drop" and stand only to benefit from it.

Greenspan's worry that he discussed last week is the deficit, not the value of the dollar.

[Donut]

Originally posted by Khazadman Risen: Once again, why should we care what the world thinks?

Because you have 25% of the world's wealth but only 2% of the world's population.

You can't prosper by selling amongst yourselves.

[Donut]

Originally posted by John D Harris: now show me where your native country is subject to the laws of the USA. Show me that if you can!

Trade with Cuba




This month, a Canadian became the first foreign national convicted of trading with Cuba.

By Tavia Grant | Special to The Christian Science Monitor

TORONTO - Earlier this month, businessman James Sabzali was found guilty of violating the US trade embargo against Cuba. The case, tried in Philadelphia, passed unnoticed in most US cities. In Canada, however, the verdict has generated a public outcry.

Mr. Sabzali, a Canadian who sold water-purification products to Cuba from an office in Canada, is the first foreign national to be convicted under the United States Trading With the Enemy Act.

By prosecuting a Canadian – who was breaking no Canadian laws – the case underscores a tougher enforcement stance on the part of the Bush administration. And it highlights the diverging views between Canada and the US on how to deal with the Marxist regime.

Sabzali was convicted along with the two owners of Bro-Tech Corp., of Bala Cynwyd, Pennsylvania. From 1992 to 1996, Sabzali worked as a sales representative, selling chemicals to Cuba. In 1996, he was made marketing director of the company and moved to Philadelphia with his wife and two children. While in the US, he approved travel expenses for another Canadian to do business in Cuba.

Of the 21 charges of which Sabzali was convicted, eight occurred when he was living in Canada. Trade with Cuba is permitted under Canadian law. Other countries, such as England, Spain, and Mexico, also allow trade with Cuba. And many US companies do quietly trade with Cuba from foreign subsidiary offices outside the US.

But under the 1992 Cuban Democracy Act, US companies and their foreign subsidiaries are specifically forbidden to trade with Cuba.

"This has been really difficult for Canadians to understand," says David Robertson, a Toronto-based international trade lawyer who assisted in Sabzali's defense. "What's difficult is the apparent hypocrisy of singling out one nation that doesn't pose any significant military threat."

Sabzali might not have been prosecuted if he'd continued operating out of Canada. But he had clearly violated [US law] and then he moved to the US," says David Sharp, director at the Center for International Business Studies at the University of Western Ontario. "You can only wave the red flag for so long before the bull charges. Other people haven't been quite that blatant."

Though Canada and many European nations don't dispute the US's right to set its own foreign policy, many Canadians are concerned about what Mr. Robertson calls a "unilateral claim on jurisdiction" towards someone who was obeying Canadian laws.

Assistant US Attorney Joseph Poluka says the case involves no contradiction between Canadian and US law, because the bulk of Mr. Sabzali's work was related to the US.

"Order forms were processed here [in the US], some manufacturing was done here, the product was stored here, it was shipped from here and didn't enter Canada – so the notion that Canadian commerce is involved is wrong," says Mr. Poluka. "The only thing that was in Canada was the sales rep. What we have is a foreigner, who happens to be Canadian, helping to violate the embargo."

The Trading With the Enemy Act was introduced in 1917. The act gave the president power to prohibit any business transactions by groups from enemy countries who operate within the US. It was amended several times to strengthen the embargo against Cuba.

Though some see it as a relic of the past, others say it is a fixture of US law. "The Trading With the Enemy Act has been around since 1917 and looks like a permanent feature of our legal system," says Nancy Chang, senior litigation attorney at the Center for Constitutional Rights in New York.

It is not clear whether this verdict will lead to further prosecutions. Betsy Maclean, associate director of the Center for Cuban Studies in New York, says US policy has been ambiguous under the Bush administration. It has authorized some export of food and medicine to Cuba (though prohibits US financing of those exports).

But on the other hand, Ms. Maclean says, the Bush administration is increasingly cracking down on US tourists who visit Cuba illegally by issuing fines – something past administrations have turned a blind eye to.

The Sabzali verdict comes amid increasing pressure in Washington to resume ties with Cuba.

Last month, 34 US congressmen called for loosening the embargo and permitting US citizens to visit the island. The Bush administration is allowing former US president Jimmy Carter to visit the island in May, the first former president to do so.

Canada's long-standing approach to Cuba has been "constructive engagement." Canada has had an official trade policy with Cuba since 1945 and now is one of Cuba's biggest trading partners. Canadian tourists account for the largest percentage of visitors to the Caribbean isle.

US officials say they don't expect the case to hurt relations between Canada and the US. "We had a few phone calls from Canadians in the first day or two saying they shouldn't have convicted him, but it's dropped back down again," says Buck Shinkman, a spokesman for the US Embassy in Ottawa. "I don't see this affecting diplomatic ties."

Foreign affairs officials for the Canadian government say they're "reviewing the verdict very carefully" before making a response.

They're also waiting until Sabzali is sentenced or files an appeal. Though a maximum penalty is 205 years in jail, Poluka says a "conservative estimate" of Sabzali's sentence is a jail term of 41 to 51 months.

[Donut]

The Computer Fraud and Abuse Act

"An amendment to the definition of a "protected computer" for the first time explicitly enables U.S. law enforcement to prosecute computer hackers outside the United States in cases where neither the hackers nor their victims are in the U.S., provided only that packets related to that activity traveled through U.S. computers or routers.

This remarkable amendment is to the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, which Congress enacted in 1984 to prohibit conduct that damages a "Federal interest computer," defined at the time as "a computer owned or used by the United States Government or a financial institution," or, "one of two or more computers used in committing the offense, not all of which are located in the same State."