An open invitation to election fraud - Page 2

Faceman · 10-01-2003, 02:40 PM

You want an open invitation to electoral fraud?
What about letting people get away with it and giving them the probably most powerful job in the world.
Whether or not the Florida presidental votes were rigged I would have liked to see more investigation in that matter. Be it to convict Bush of or to clear him from the accusations/charges of electoral fraud.
To end a big fraud case like that with: "Well that's the way it is now and we better don't do anything about it or people will get to excited" is shameful and unsatisfying.

[ 10-01-2003, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: Faceman ]

Sir Kenyth · 10-01-2003, 02:56 PM

The security flaws can be easily overcome. If the the Diebold software runs under W2K or WXP, the OS has enough inherent security to leave a record trail for file manipulation and prevent unauthorized access. Network hardware using a dedicated circuit along with encryption would take care of intercepted transmission problems from outside sources. Even a VPN (PIX) over a public network is extremely difficult to get into without inside information. Once again, these measures all run outside of the software application. One problem I see is most local governments won't have the money or desire to implement proper data security measures after the huge cost of the Diebold equipment. Diebold equipment is VERY expensive. As in tens of thousands of dollars per unit. A secure network environment and the software and personnel it takes to support it are expensive in their own right. Most will see the money and treat it as an option instead of a necessity. All this high tech stuff is great, but no one seems to have the money for it's proper implementation.

Always remember this:

ANYONE with sufficient knowledge can crack ANY security measure with enough inside help, whether the help was given inadvertently or not. Your own employees are your biggest risk. Knowledgeable employees with a low risk habits and a clear cut, well understood, and widely distributed security policy are your best measures. Many businesses say that finding employees like this is almost impossible. It's not, they just cost more.

john · 10-01-2003, 06:18 PM

That bastard stole the last election now hes gonna try it without his brothers help!Well I guess that ol fighter jock is getting tough now huh,,,bring um on !!!!What an ass!

Faceman · 10-01-2003, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by john:
That bastard stole the last election now hes gonna try it without his brothers help!Well I guess that ol fighter jock is getting tough now huh,,,bring um on !!!!What an ass!

Try to be civil. I understand your point and admit that I would be outraged too (in fact I was when our government cheated themselves into office) but sadly there is no open proof and hence we have to assume "innocent until proven guilty" and name-calling won't help.

HolyWarrior · 10-02-2003, 02:46 AM

The Democrats need to learn to be careful what they wish for. They bitched that punchcards were too hard to use (funny, my area has no problem with them--and it worked well enough for Grayout Davis last November). Now they find out that the maker of touch-screen election equipment is a Republican.

Classic OOPSIE! [img]graemlins/evillaughter1.gif[/img]

Chewbacca · 10-02-2003, 03:38 AM

If it appears like a conflict of interest, it may very well be a conflict of interest. Once again the partisan divider that causes people to look the other way or deflect from the topic is at hand.

*Shakes fist & curses partisan politics*

Sir Kenyth · 10-03-2003, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chewbacca:
If it appears like a conflict of interest, it may very well be a conflict of interest. Once again the partisan divider that causes people to look the other way or deflect from the topic is at hand.

*Shakes fist & curses partisan politics*

EVERYONE has some sort of political opinion. That can't be used to disciminate when purchasing equipment. Diebold is one of the top manufacturers of secure automated equipment. Teller machines, cash dispensers, etc. They are a logical choice.

wellard · 10-05-2003, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Faceman:

Whether or not the Florida presidental votes were rigged I would have liked to see more investigation in that matter. Be it to convict Bush of or to clear him from the accusations/charges of electoral fraud.
To end a big fraud case like that with: "Well that's the way it is now and we better don't do anything about it or people will get to excited" is shameful and unsatisfying.

It still beggars belief that the so-called torchbearer of democracy in the world can have such a half arsed attitude to its own democracy. Heaven and earth should have been moved to create a federal standard of laws and procedures within a year of the last federal ~~embarra~~ election. How much are you spending to bring democracy to Iraq and yet you still have a system that looks to the outsider as though it was run by the keystone cops.

Hey! But if it’s to hard just sweep the problem under the carpet

Rokenn · 10-06-2003, 03:31 PM

More information on the vulnerabilities of the DIEBOLD machines:

Time to Recall E-Vote Machines?

The problems are not just in the cyber-security, but in the phyiscal as well:

excerpt:
Officials leave voting machines at polling stations days before the election. The machines contain memory cards with ballots already loaded on them. This means before the election, someone could alter the ballot file in such a way that voters would cast votes for the wrong candidate without knowing it.

The memory card rests behind a locked door on the side of the voting machine. But supervisors receive a key to the compartment the weekend before the election. The same key fits every machine at a polling station.

Poll supervisors are selected with no background checks and are given keys to buildings where they can access the machines several days before the election.

The machines, worth around $3,000 each, are locked on a trolley at polling stations with only a bicycle lock. The combination, which anyone could crack in a couple of tries, is the same for every polling station in the county and is given to poll supervisors during their training.

Although the machines have two blue tamper-resistant ties threaded through holes in their carrying cases, the ties can easily be purchased on the Internet. Supervisors open at least one case the night before the election to charge the machine inside, which means the case remains unsealed overnight.

Indemaijinj · 10-06-2003, 04:21 PM

I have a name for this new contraption:

The Election Rig [img]tongue.gif[/img]

10-01-2003, 02:40 PM	#11
Faceman Hathor Join Date: February 18, 2002 Location: Vienna Age: 42 Posts: 2,248	You want an open invitation to electoral fraud? What about letting people get away with it and giving them the probably most powerful job in the world. Whether or not the Florida presidental votes were rigged I would have liked to see more investigation in that matter. Be it to convict Bush of or to clear him from the accusations/charges of electoral fraud. To end a big fraud case like that with: "Well that's the way it is now and we better don't do anything about it or people will get to excited" is shameful and unsatisfying. [ 10-01-2003, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: Faceman ] __________________ \"I am forever spellbound by the frailty of life\"<br /><br /> Faceman

10-01-2003, 02:56 PM	#12
Sir Kenyth Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: August 30, 2001 Location: somewhere Age: 54 Posts: 1,785	The security flaws can be easily overcome. If the the Diebold software runs under W2K or WXP, the OS has enough inherent security to leave a record trail for file manipulation and prevent unauthorized access. Network hardware using a dedicated circuit along with encryption would take care of intercepted transmission problems from outside sources. Even a VPN (PIX) over a public network is extremely difficult to get into without inside information. Once again, these measures all run outside of the software application. One problem I see is most local governments won't have the money or desire to implement proper data security measures after the huge cost of the Diebold equipment. Diebold equipment is VERY expensive. As in tens of thousands of dollars per unit. A secure network environment and the software and personnel it takes to support it are expensive in their own right. Most will see the money and treat it as an option instead of a necessity. All this high tech stuff is great, but no one seems to have the money for it's proper implementation. Always remember this: ANYONE with sufficient knowledge can crack ANY security measure with enough inside help, whether the help was given inadvertently or not. Your own employees are your biggest risk. Knowledgeable employees with a low risk habits and a clear cut, well understood, and widely distributed security policy are your best measures. Many businesses say that finding employees like this is almost impossible. It's not, they just cost more. __________________ Master Barbsman and wielder of the razor wit!<br /><br />There are dark angels among us. They present themselves in shining raiment but there is, in their hearts, the blackness of the abyss.

10-01-2003, 06:18 PM	#13
john Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: October 6, 2001 Location: central coast of Ca. Age: 77 Posts: 653	That bastard stole the last election now hes gonna try it without his brothers help!Well I guess that ol fighter jock is getting tough now huh,,,bring um on !!!!What an ass! __________________ John

10-02-2003, 03:38 AM	#16
Chewbacca Zartan Join Date: July 18, 2001 Location: America, On The Beautiful Earth Age: 50 Posts: 5,373	If it appears like a conflict of interest, it may very well be a conflict of interest. Once again the partisan divider that causes people to look the other way or deflect from the topic is at hand. Shakes fist & curses partisan politics __________________ Support Local Music and Record Stores! Got Liberty?

10-06-2003, 03:31 PM	#19
Rokenn Galvatron Join Date: January 22, 2002 Location: california wine country Age: 60 Posts: 2,193	More information on the vulnerabilities of the DIEBOLD machines: Time to Recall E-Vote Machines? The problems are not just in the cyber-security, but in the phyiscal as well: excerpt: Officials leave voting machines at polling stations days before the election. The machines contain memory cards with ballots already loaded on them. This means before the election, someone could alter the ballot file in such a way that voters would cast votes for the wrong candidate without knowing it. The memory card rests behind a locked door on the side of the voting machine. But supervisors receive a key to the compartment the weekend before the election. The same key fits every machine at a polling station. Poll supervisors are selected with no background checks and are given keys to buildings where they can access the machines several days before the election. The machines, worth around $3,000 each, are locked on a trolley at polling stations with only a bicycle lock. The combination, which anyone could crack in a couple of tries, is the same for every polling station in the county and is given to poll supervisors during their training. Although the machines have two blue tamper-resistant ties threaded through holes in their carrying cases, the ties can easily be purchased on the Internet. Supervisors open at least one case the night before the election to charge the machine inside, which means the case remains unsealed overnight. __________________ “This is an impressive crowd, the haves and the have mores. <br />Some people call you the elite. <br />I call you my base.”<br />~ George W. Bush (2000)

10-02-2003, 02:46 AM	#15
HolyWarrior User Suspended for 2 weeks by Ziroc [Dec30] Join Date: July 7, 2002 Location: IL Age: 57 Posts: 472	The Democrats need to learn to be careful what they wish for. They bitched that punchcards were too hard to use (funny, my area has no problem with them--and it worked well enough for Grayout Davis last November). Now they find out that the maker of touch-screen election equipment is a Republican. Classic OOPSIE! [img]graemlins/evillaughter1.gif[/img]

10-06-2003, 04:21 PM	#20
Indemaijinj Symbol of Cyric Join Date: June 15, 2002 Location: Denmark Age: 43 Posts: 1,163	I have a name for this new contraption: The Election Rig [img]tongue.gif[/img] __________________ The Bleak Caballero<br /><br />Proud and original member (and secret admirer) of the Pro-Mazzy movement.

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