Should a criminal be responsible for the crash of two news choppers??

Larry_OHF · 07-28-2007, 11:29 AM

This guys steals a car and the police give chase. Three news helicopters decide to report on the scene and two of them crash into one another while the third records this new turn of events. The police chief is quoted in saying: "I think he will be held responsible for any of the deaths from this tragedy."

I understand the law that states if a suspect being persued by police gives chase and causes the deaths of innocent bystanders that are in the vicinity as well as the police who are doing their job...then the suspect is held accountable for the deaths of all those that are hurt or die. However, I am not supportive of the idea that this suspect would be responsible for the crash of the two news stations' air patrol who were voluntarily chasing the suspect to make money for their stations...not in the line of danger on the ground, and were either not following the direction of Air Traffic Control or were misled by that control. If it had been one chopper, there would have been no crash but it sounds like the competing news stations were just throwing safety to the wind...so to say...Either way, it was the fault of somebody other than the man.

Can anyone change my viewpoint?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/27/hel...ash/index.html

[ 07-28-2007, 11:30 PM: Message edited by: Larry_OHF ]

Dreamer128 · 07-28-2007, 01:33 PM

Nope, I'm right there with you, Larry. These TV-crews were hardly innocent bystanders. They were at the scene, not by chance, but because there was a chase taking place.

robertthebard · 07-28-2007, 06:39 PM

I'm with ya'. There was no call for the pilots not watching where they were going.

Dragonshadow · 07-28-2007, 07:22 PM

I don't think the criminal is responsible. The guys in the helicopters made the choice to be there, with the risks that go along with it.

Larry_OHF · 07-28-2007, 11:30 PM

Oops, I forgot to give a link. Today's news story is an updated version from the original one I quoted from yesterday.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/27/hel...ash/index.html

John D Harris · 07-30-2007, 03:44 PM

IIRC, FAA regs. are if your are the one in the pilots seat the ultimate responibility is yours, no matter what.

Black Baron · 07-30-2007, 04:19 PM

IMHo there is no reason whatsoever to charge him with these deaths. They took their own risks when not on active police duty.

Davros · 08-01-2007, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by John D Harris:
IIRC, FAA regs. are if your are the one in the pilots seat the ultimate responibility is yours, no matter what.

Hey there JD - saw your post and just had to chime in here to say you are dead wrong and that .................. hmm - hold on - I think I agree with you on this one. What has happened to the world that once I knew [img]smile.gif[/img] . No way should the criminal get extra charges as a result of the coptor collision.

PS - love it that you still keep it there in your sig. We may not agree on many things, but you are an honorable crusty gentleman and that's the truth.

Timber Loftis · 08-03-2007, 02:24 AM

ZOMG love from Davros to JD. This is a singularity event folks, so grab onto your chairs and prepare for Armageddon.

I actually agree... but I think the law disagrees and might hold the guy liable. The issue is proximate cause... meaning -> "Was the accident a FORESEEABLE result of the guys negligence in running from the cops?"

In the modern era, I would think a jury MAY decide that the event of news helicopters crashing into one another was foreseeable given the fact that news helicopters regularly fly around chase scenes. It's not CRIMINAL though, in my point of view.... the driver's liability is a CIVIL LAW negligence issue.

Bungleau · 08-03-2007, 09:31 AM

Hmmm... you've got a point, TL, but it bears extending.

He ran from the cops. News copters followed and crashed into each other. He could expect the news folks to follow the story, so he's responsible.

He ran from the cops. News *trucks* followed and had an accident along the way. He could expect the news folks to follow the story, so... still responsible?

By opening it up to the current scenario, it seems to me it opens up to alternate scenarios, which can ultimately lead to "I invite people to dinner and they get in an accident along the way. Therefore I'm responsible". And what about gawkers? Is he responsible for their actions as well? It's the ol' slippery slope, heading this way.

I'm curious as to how far his sphere of responsibility should extend.

07-28-2007, 11:29 AM	#1
Larry_OHF Ironworks Moderator Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Midlands, South Carolina Age: 48 Posts: 14,759	This guys steals a car and the police give chase. Three news helicopters decide to report on the scene and two of them crash into one another while the third records this new turn of events. The police chief is quoted in saying: "I think he will be held responsible for any of the deaths from this tragedy." I understand the law that states if a suspect being persued by police gives chase and causes the deaths of innocent bystanders that are in the vicinity as well as the police who are doing their job...then the suspect is held accountable for the deaths of all those that are hurt or die. However, I am not supportive of the idea that this suspect would be responsible for the crash of the two news stations' air patrol who were voluntarily chasing the suspect to make money for their stations...not in the line of danger on the ground, and were either not following the direction of Air Traffic Control or were misled by that control. If it had been one chopper, there would have been no crash but it sounds like the competing news stations were just throwing safety to the wind...so to say...Either way, it was the fault of somebody other than the man. Can anyone change my viewpoint? http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/27/hel...ash/index.html [ 07-28-2007, 11:30 PM: Message edited by: Larry_OHF ] __________________

07-28-2007, 06:39 PM	#3
robertthebard Xanathar Thieves Guild Join Date: March 17, 2001 Location: Wichita, KS USA Age: 60 Posts: 4,537	I'm with ya'. There was no call for the pilots not watching where they were going. __________________ To those we have lost; May your spirits fly free. Good Music: Here. Interesting read, one of my blogs.

07-28-2007, 07:22 PM	#4
Dragonshadow Quth-Maren Join Date: February 17, 2003 Location: Portsmouth Age: 34 Posts: 4,145	I don't think the criminal is responsible. The guys in the helicopters made the choice to be there, with the risks that go along with it. __________________ aka Loc der Graf, Quillruke

07-28-2007, 11:30 PM	#5
Larry_OHF Ironworks Moderator Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Midlands, South Carolina Age: 48 Posts: 14,759	Oops, I forgot to give a link. Today's news story is an updated version from the original one I quoted from yesterday. http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/27/hel...ash/index.html __________________

07-30-2007, 03:44 PM	#6
John D Harris Ninja Storm Shadow Join Date: March 27, 2001 Location: Northport,Alabama, USA Age: 62 Posts: 3,577	IIRC, FAA regs. are if your are the one in the pilots seat the ultimate responibility is yours, no matter what. __________________ Crustiest of the OLD COOTS "Donating mirrors for years to help the Liberal/Socialist find their collective rear-ends, because both hands doesn't seem to be working. Veitnam 61-65:KIA 1864 66:KIA 5008 67:KIA 9378 68:KIA 14594 69:KIA 9414 70:KIA 4221 71:KIA 1380 72:KIA 300 Afghanistan2001-2008 KIA 585 2009-2012 KIA 1465 and counting Davros 1 Much abliged Massachusetts

07-28-2007, 01:33 PM	#2
Dreamer128 Dracolisk Join Date: March 21, 2001 Location: Europe Age: 39 Posts: 6,136	Nope, I'm right there with you, Larry. These TV-crews were hardly innocent bystanders. They were at the scene, not by chance, but because there was a chase taking place.

07-30-2007, 04:19 PM	#7
Black Baron Red Wizard of Thay Join Date: September 7, 2003 Location: Israel Age: 39 Posts: 877	IMHo there is no reason whatsoever to charge him with these deaths. They took their own risks when not on active police duty. __________________ Case from my reservist service: Kids attention, I have brought you something... Don't pull that ring private!!

08-03-2007, 02:24 AM	#9
Timber Loftis 40th Level Warrior Join Date: July 11, 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 11,916	ZOMG love from Davros to JD. This is a singularity event folks, so grab onto your chairs and prepare for Armageddon. I actually agree... but I think the law disagrees and might hold the guy liable. The issue is proximate cause... meaning -> "Was the accident a FORESEEABLE result of the guys negligence in running from the cops?" In the modern era, I would think a jury MAY decide that the event of news helicopters crashing into one another was foreseeable given the fact that news helicopters regularly fly around chase scenes. It's not CRIMINAL though, in my point of view.... the driver's liability is a CIVIL LAW negligence issue. __________________

08-03-2007, 09:31 AM	#10
Bungleau 40th Level Warrior Join Date: October 29, 2001 Location: Western Wilds of Michigan Posts: 11,752	Hmmm... you've got a point, TL, but it bears extending. He ran from the cops. News copters followed and crashed into each other. He could expect the news folks to follow the story, so he's responsible. He ran from the cops. News trucks followed and had an accident along the way. He could expect the news folks to follow the story, so... still responsible? By opening it up to the current scenario, it seems to me it opens up to alternate scenarios, which can ultimately lead to "I invite people to dinner and they get in an accident along the way. Therefore I'm responsible". And what about gawkers? Is he responsible for their actions as well? It's the ol' slippery slope, heading this way. I'm curious as to how far his sphere of responsibility should extend. __________________ B Save Early, Save Often Save Before, Save After Two-Star General, Spelling Soldiers -+-+-+ Give 'em a hug one more time. It might be the last.

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