Designed to break...

Sever · 09-29-2005, 09:16 AM

My car broke down on saturday. Not because of engine trouble, battery, fuel or any of the usual stuff. Instead it was a small shaft that links the mechanical/electrical components of the ignition barrel. Basically, turning the key didn't activate the electrics.

Wasn't really a big deal at the time, as it was only a 5 min walk from home and 100m to my work. So i got a mate to tow it to the workshop, and then promptly forgot about it until tuesday. As you do. Nothing ever breaks down on a weekday. (And as it happens, monday was a public holiday) Come tuesday, i isolated the problem on my lunchbreak and picked up a replacement part that afternoon. $50 (plus GST! Not a bargain) bought me a brand spankin' new ignition barrel. The guy i bought it from basically told me to get a pro to install it and i can see the merit in this. Usually i would, as stuffing around with cars just isn't my thing. But i'm stubborn, so i ignored him. And anyway, i've only just finished being ripped off $1500 by the mechanic next door for maintenance that, in retrospect, i could have done myself. Yeah, i was gonna do this thing. Out of principal if nothing else.

What a puzzle! I've never seen the inside of any key/lock mechanism, let alone assembled one. So i was a bit surprised when i opened the box and saw dozens of wafer thin, flat tumblers and just as many tiny little springs. Apparently this wasn't gonna be so easy. But i sat down and sifted through it all and eventually worked out the mechanics of it. (I've a new found respect for locksmiths!) A little while after that, using trial and error, i mapped out the positions of each of the tumblers according to my car key and had the whole thing assembled, ready to install. It turned out to be easier than the guy had led me to believe. It's only fitting that the next step, the bit that i thought would be easy, turned out to be the hardest.

I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to remove the old one! I won't go into too much detail but the three main components that make up the ignition barrel are like pipes that fit neatly inside one another. The two inner pipes are the most complex, with all the tumblers and whatnot and these are the bits that i bought. The outer one (permanently bolted to the steering column) is basically a shell that holds it together and the electrical switch butts onto this. But there were no screws, no bolts, no hint as to the method of removing the inner two. I lost two more lunch hours trying to wrap my head around the problem.

After much pondering, trial and error, i eventually found the solution. Turning the key 120 degrees (two thirds of its rotation) and inserting a tiny Allen key into a semi-hidden orifice releases a catch on the inside, allowing the two inner bits to slide out. Of course! Why didn't i think of that sooner? It's the equivalent of a secret door knock, password and handshake.

Anyway, it wasn't too hard to install after i'd figured out how to remove it and before long i was driving again. Was i King Dick or what? [img]graemlins/cool.gif[/img] I was practically beaming with pride. I was stumped on several occasions but i kept at it, and in the end, i got it! And saved myself from a hefty bill at the same time.

Then i looked over to the passenger seat and saw the old one. The inner-most barrel with the broken shaft protruding "middle finger" like in my direction. Right from tuesday lunchtime, i had known the true problem. Somehow, in my zeal to fix it myself, i had lost sight of the real issue. And when i succeeded, i allowed myself a brief moment to reflect on my accomplishment. But that time was over. I picked it up and looked at it again. The two barrel components were robust enough, i guess, and the stainless gizmos were definitely up to the task. But the shaft, the culprit, was about 30mm long and 3mm thick at its widest. And made from brittle, cast alloy. Alloy designed to break.

The chain, as they say, is only as strong as its weakest link. And this proverbial link couldn't be mended once it broke. It and the whole kit and kaboodle, had to be replaced. And the unnecessarily difficult installation procedure was designed to prevent would-be DIYers from saving a buck. But i hadn't saved a cent. I'd been robbed $50 (plus GST!) and several lunch hours worth of day dreams. I'd been shafted by some egg-head whose job (with very little satisfaction, i'll wager) is to design components to break after a finite number.

I tossed it on the floor in disgust and pulled into the pub...

Bokken · 09-29-2005, 10:03 AM

Kinda sucks mate but if this makes you feel better at all here goes. I was stripping the drivers rear door trim off a brand new VW Toureg and accidentantally pulled a bit too hard at the bottom. This pulled a nice tear in the door trim about 4 inches long. Not to worry I thought. We'll just get it replaced and it will all be good! I was quoted $2,500AU for it. You hearing this? $2,500 for just the trim. No switches or anything else that goes on it whatsoever! After a hell of a lot of help we got it for just under $1,900. I know it's a brand new car and all but this is just wrong!
The only thing I'm wondering now is what the price would be had I broken the drivers door trim instead!

[ 09-29-2005, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: Bokken ]

Sever · 09-30-2005, 12:45 AM

Wow! That's insane! Daylight robbery. They cannot possibly justify that ridiculous amount of money Even if they did fly it overnight from Germany!

Sure makes me feel better though!

Thanks mate [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

I know there's a few mechanics (and quite a few more DIY ones) floating around on IW. Anyone else had similar experiences with bits made to break? Holden interior and Ford exterior door handles excluded. Everyone already knows these are bodge.

wellard · 10-02-2005, 02:33 AM

That sucks Sever, but good on ya mate for trying with that lock. It is great when you manage to work out a problem like that!

Try aircraft spares (even non Boeing ones) I replaced a lock / handle assembly on a cabin crew rest door on a 747-400 a few weeks ago, the cost? .... just a lazy $11500.00

burnzey boi · 10-02-2005, 05:16 AM

Sever big post small attention span.. got up to second part and gave up because it was so long! You should realy buy a hydrogen based car now, it will be more cheaper and apparently it doesn't need much fixing as it is only a few mechanisms in there that last a decade.

Sever · 10-02-2005, 06:07 AM

As soon as hydrogen/electric/dead cat powered cars become mainstream, you can bet your last that they'll be building 'em to break. It's just too easy to get a dead cat to go on strike...

I saw an air crash investigation docco a few months ago. One of the exterior baggage doors blew open, tearing a hole in the side of the plane and a dozen or so people were sucked out. All due to a faulty locking mechanism. $11500 seems a small price to pay.

But aircraft, unlike family sedans, aren't designed to break.

Intrepid · 10-02-2005, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by burnzey boi:
Sever big post small attention span.. got up to second part and gave up because it was so long! You should realy buy a hydrogen based car now, it will be more cheaper and apparently it doesn't need much fixing as it is only a few mechanisms in there that last a decade.

Hydrogen cars will still require a key though.

Firestormalpha · 10-03-2005, 01:24 AM

Just you watch out if your hybrid or Hydrogen car catches fire. Word is out that rescue workers (at least here in the states) won't pull out people trapped in a burning Hybrid car because once the fire hits the hydrogen cells that car is going up like a really big firecracker.

wellard · 10-03-2005, 04:20 AM

Unlike petrol or LPG, which would be totally safe eh!

When you say the "word is out" have you got a link to a rescue worker like an ambulance driver or a fireman that would not try and rescue a person in a burning hydrogen car yet would do so for a petrol car? :1ponder

If hydrogen was to leak from a ruptured tank, being a lighter than air gas it would not form a dangerous pool like petrol, but disperse very quickly into the atmosphere. Also burning hydrogen does not heat the surrounding area anywhere near as bad as petrol with its hot soot resulting in less danger for the rescue worker.

Now of course I’m not saying hydrogen is totally safe, any stored energy source has inherent problems, but the 'phurphy' of exploding tanks does need to be regarded with the contempt it deserves.

:

Thoran · 10-03-2005, 09:26 AM

You're not going to see hydrogen fuel cells in cars unless a storage mechanism that's safe is developed. I read an article recently where hydrogen was being stored as ammonia in the form of a rechargable solid... in that form it's far safer than gas.

http://www.jp.dk/english_news/artikel:aid=3248610/

This is the sort of solution we're going to need if the 'hydrogen economy' is ever going to get off the ground.

09-29-2005, 09:16 AM	#1
Sever Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: October 31, 2002 Location: Western Australia Age: 43 Posts: 3,293	My car broke down on saturday. Not because of engine trouble, battery, fuel or any of the usual stuff. Instead it was a small shaft that links the mechanical/electrical components of the ignition barrel. Basically, turning the key didn't activate the electrics. Wasn't really a big deal at the time, as it was only a 5 min walk from home and 100m to my work. So i got a mate to tow it to the workshop, and then promptly forgot about it until tuesday. As you do. Nothing ever breaks down on a weekday. (And as it happens, monday was a public holiday) Come tuesday, i isolated the problem on my lunchbreak and picked up a replacement part that afternoon. $50 (plus GST! Not a bargain) bought me a brand spankin' new ignition barrel. The guy i bought it from basically told me to get a pro to install it and i can see the merit in this. Usually i would, as stuffing around with cars just isn't my thing. But i'm stubborn, so i ignored him. And anyway, i've only just finished being ripped off $1500 by the mechanic next door for maintenance that, in retrospect, i could have done myself. Yeah, i was gonna do this thing. Out of principal if nothing else. What a puzzle! I've never seen the inside of any key/lock mechanism, let alone assembled one. So i was a bit surprised when i opened the box and saw dozens of wafer thin, flat tumblers and just as many tiny little springs. Apparently this wasn't gonna be so easy. But i sat down and sifted through it all and eventually worked out the mechanics of it. (I've a new found respect for locksmiths!) A little while after that, using trial and error, i mapped out the positions of each of the tumblers according to my car key and had the whole thing assembled, ready to install. It turned out to be easier than the guy had led me to believe. It's only fitting that the next step, the bit that i thought would be easy, turned out to be the hardest. I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to remove the old one! I won't go into too much detail but the three main components that make up the ignition barrel are like pipes that fit neatly inside one another. The two inner pipes are the most complex, with all the tumblers and whatnot and these are the bits that i bought. The outer one (permanently bolted to the steering column) is basically a shell that holds it together and the electrical switch butts onto this. But there were no screws, no bolts, no hint as to the method of removing the inner two. I lost two more lunch hours trying to wrap my head around the problem. After much pondering, trial and error, i eventually found the solution. Turning the key 120 degrees (two thirds of its rotation) and inserting a tiny Allen key into a semi-hidden orifice releases a catch on the inside, allowing the two inner bits to slide out. Of course! Why didn't i think of that sooner? It's the equivalent of a secret door knock, password and handshake. Anyway, it wasn't too hard to install after i'd figured out how to remove it and before long i was driving again. Was i King Dick or what? [img]graemlins/cool.gif[/img] I was practically beaming with pride. I was stumped on several occasions but i kept at it, and in the end, i got it! And saved myself from a hefty bill at the same time. Then i looked over to the passenger seat and saw the old one. The inner-most barrel with the broken shaft protruding "middle finger" like in my direction. Right from tuesday lunchtime, i had known the true problem. Somehow, in my zeal to fix it myself, i had lost sight of the real issue. And when i succeeded, i allowed myself a brief moment to reflect on my accomplishment. But that time was over. I picked it up and looked at it again. The two barrel components were robust enough, i guess, and the stainless gizmos were definitely up to the task. But the shaft, the culprit, was about 30mm long and 3mm thick at its widest. And made from brittle, cast alloy. Alloy designed to break. The chain, as they say, is only as strong as its weakest link. And this proverbial link couldn't be mended once it broke. It and the whole kit and kaboodle, had to be replaced. And the unnecessarily difficult installation procedure was designed to prevent would-be DIYers from saving a buck. But i hadn't saved a cent. I'd been robbed $50 (plus GST!) and several lunch hours worth of day dreams. I'd been shafted by some egg-head whose job (with very little satisfaction, i'll wager) is to design components to break after a finite number. I tossed it on the floor in disgust and pulled into the pub... __________________ Say say, oh playmate i cannot play with you my dolly's got the flu boo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo

09-30-2005, 12:45 AM	#3
Sever Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: October 31, 2002 Location: Western Australia Age: 43 Posts: 3,293	Wow! That's insane! Daylight robbery. They cannot possibly justify that ridiculous amount of money Even if they did fly it overnight from Germany! Sure makes me feel better though! Thanks mate [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] I know there's a few mechanics (and quite a few more DIY ones) floating around on IW. Anyone else had similar experiences with bits made to break? Holden interior and Ford exterior door handles excluded. Everyone already knows these are bodge. __________________ Say say, oh playmate i cannot play with you my dolly's got the flu boo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo

10-02-2005, 02:33 AM	#4
wellard Dracolisk Join Date: November 1, 2002 Location: Australia ..... G\'day! Posts: 6,123	That sucks Sever, but good on ya mate for trying with that lock. It is great when you manage to work out a problem like that! Try aircraft spares (even non Boeing ones) I replaced a lock / handle assembly on a cabin crew rest door on a 747-400 a few weeks ago, the cost? .... just a lazy $11500.00 __________________ fossils - natures way of laughing at creationists for over 3 billion years

10-02-2005, 05:16 AM	#5
burnzey boi Red Wizard of Thay Join Date: September 14, 2004 Location: Western Australia Age: 33 Posts: 800	Sever big post small attention span.. got up to second part and gave up because it was so long! You should realy buy a hydrogen based car now, it will be more cheaper and apparently it doesn't need much fixing as it is only a few mechanisms in there that last a decade. __________________ burnzey - The Australian kiss, like a French kiss, but down under (Main)Undead Mage - 70, Orc Warrior - 70, Blood Elf Paladin - 70, Orc Shaman - 70, Troll Rogue - 70, Orc Hunter - 65, UD Warlock 61, BE Priest 60, Tauren Drood - 60 OM NOM NOM NOM

10-02-2005, 06:07 AM	#6
Sever Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: October 31, 2002 Location: Western Australia Age: 43 Posts: 3,293	As soon as hydrogen/electric/dead cat powered cars become mainstream, you can bet your last that they'll be building 'em to break. It's just too easy to get a dead cat to go on strike... I saw an air crash investigation docco a few months ago. One of the exterior baggage doors blew open, tearing a hole in the side of the plane and a dozen or so people were sucked out. All due to a faulty locking mechanism. $11500 seems a small price to pay. But aircraft, unlike family sedans, aren't designed to break. __________________ Say say, oh playmate i cannot play with you my dolly's got the flu boo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo

09-29-2005, 10:03 AM	#2
Bokken Baaz Draconian Join Date: August 28, 2001 Location: Australia Age: 46 Posts: 708	Kinda sucks mate but if this makes you feel better at all here goes. I was stripping the drivers rear door trim off a brand new VW Toureg and accidentantally pulled a bit too hard at the bottom. This pulled a nice tear in the door trim about 4 inches long. Not to worry I thought. We'll just get it replaced and it will all be good! I was quoted $2,500AU for it. You hearing this? $2,500 for just the trim. No switches or anything else that goes on it whatsoever! After a hell of a lot of help we got it for just under $1,900. I know it's a brand new car and all but this is just wrong! The only thing I'm wondering now is what the price would be had I broken the drivers door trim instead! [ 09-29-2005, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: Bokken ]

10-03-2005, 01:24 AM	#8
Firestormalpha Knight of the Rose Join Date: July 11, 2002 Location: Coral Springs, Fl USA Age: 40 Posts: 4,454	Just you watch out if your hybrid or Hydrogen car catches fire. Word is out that rescue workers (at least here in the states) won't pull out people trapped in a burning Hybrid car because once the fire hits the hydrogen cells that car is going up like a really big firecracker. __________________ "When you start with a presupposition, it's hard to arrive at any other conclusion." "We are never to judge a philosophy by its abuse." - Augustine "If you're wondering if God has a sense of humor, consider the platypus." http://www.greaterthings.cbglades.com

10-03-2005, 04:20 AM	#9
wellard Dracolisk Join Date: November 1, 2002 Location: Australia ..... G\'day! Posts: 6,123	Unlike petrol or LPG, which would be totally safe eh! When you say the "word is out" have you got a link to a rescue worker like an ambulance driver or a fireman that would not try and rescue a person in a burning hydrogen car yet would do so for a petrol car? :1ponder If hydrogen was to leak from a ruptured tank, being a lighter than air gas it would not form a dangerous pool like petrol, but disperse very quickly into the atmosphere. Also burning hydrogen does not heat the surrounding area anywhere near as bad as petrol with its hot soot resulting in less danger for the rescue worker. Now of course I’m not saying hydrogen is totally safe, any stored energy source has inherent problems, but the 'phurphy' of exploding tanks does need to be regarded with the contempt it deserves. : __________________ fossils - natures way of laughing at creationists for over 3 billion years

10-03-2005, 09:26 AM	#10
Thoran Galvatron Join Date: January 10, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Age: 56 Posts: 2,109	You're not going to see hydrogen fuel cells in cars unless a storage mechanism that's safe is developed. I read an article recently where hydrogen was being stored as ammonia in the form of a rechargable solid... in that form it's far safer than gas. http://www.jp.dk/english_news/artikel:aid=3248610/ This is the sort of solution we're going to need if the 'hydrogen economy' is ever going to get off the ground.

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